“This Generation” in the Great Temple & Olivet Discourses

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I know I haven’t given you anything new in about a month-and-a-half, so I might as well let you know I’m still here (just working on 4 highly-interconnected posts in my critique series) and more thoroughly explain something I just explained quickly in another post. I mentioned what the phrase “this generation” meant when Jesus used it during his Passion Week, but omitted the seven pages of discussion in my upcoming book where I justify that definition in detail. Since that book is still in the “proposal writing” phase, I figured I’d give you the full discussion here, so you can just direct a preterist here if they challenge you to defend it. So here it is: the full discussion from my upcoming book — Footnotes and all — on what “this generation” refers to in not only Matthew 24, Mark 13, & Luke 21, but throughout the Bible.


But for now, there’s one point his book brought up early on that I really should address at some point in this work regardless: the meaning of the phrase “this generation” in the Olivet Discourse. I’ve seen people categorize eschatological systems based on how those systems interpret this phrase in this one sentence — that’s how much it changes everything! I’ve even seen one poor, misguided soul (misguided by his family and by other influences) use this verse to “prove” that Jesus was a liar, noting that a literal fulfillment of all the events in the Olivet Discourse didn’t happen by the time all the people who lived at the same time as Jesus died.1386 Preterists actually accept this definition and insist that all the events of the Olivet Discourse were fulfilled in the second destruction of Jerusalem,1387 but they explain away the remark about the sun and moon darkening by claiming it’s a metaphor for great judgment, symbolizes that the whole world will know about Jerusalem’s destruction because the event will be unmissable, or something else along those lines.

English translations easily give the impression that the term refers to all of Jesus’ contemporaries, since that’s the most common sense of the English word “generation”. But the truth is that the Greek word for “generation”, γενεά (genea, pronounced geh-neh-AH; Strong’s Number G1074), more often means “passively, that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family… metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race“.1388 So the phrase “this generation” more likely refers to a group of people of the same stock or having a common characteristic, and Jesus was saying people of that stock or with that characteristic will always be around “until all these things [mentioned in the Olivet Discourse] take place.” (Matthew 24:34c, Mark 13:30c NASB) Moreover, while Matthew & Luke record Jesus’ (probably Aramaic) word for “until” with the phrase ἕως ἂν (properly, “till whenever”), Mark uses μέχρις, which emphasizes a point in time when something stops being the case (as opposed to the period beforehand when it still is the case; I already discussed the word μέχρι on pages 742-743 in Appendix D). This word choice on Mark’s part forces us to conclude that this category of people will “pass away” the moment the very last of “all these things” occurs. Since there were obviously contemporaries of Jesus who were still alive after the second destruction of Jerusalem, such as the Apostle John (even if you define “this generation” as Jews who were from Jerusalem and/or rejected Jesus and/or lived to witness Jerusalem’s destruction, Flavius Josephus fits all of these criteria and continued living for roughly 30 years after Jerusalem’s destruction; he even records that the Romans spared many captives from the siege and destruction who “were in their flourishing age”1389 — which would’ve included people who were teenagers or children when Jesus was crucified, and fit all of the same criteria as Josephus himself), the phrase “this generation” obviously can’t have any of the definitions posed in this sentence (even within a Preterist framework).

So now the question is, what stock or characteristic(s) did Jesus have in mind? One reason entire eschatological camps can be distinguished by how they interpret this phrase is because the stocks or characteristics in question have a rather wide range of conceivable possibilities (and the book that preacher gave me brought out this point regarding the Hebrew word `owlam, rightly concluding that what meaning is intended in Genesis 17:8 must be determined in light of other Biblical statements; of course, I’ve already done this in Footnote 87 in Chapter 6). In fact, the broadest possible meaning of the word genea in the sense of “stock” is the set of all people who are descended from a particular person; in the most extreme case, the person in question could be Adam, in which case “this generation” would refer to the human race! But I can narrow things down — to the point of making an overwhelming case for my definition of this phrase — by considering Biblical precedent. Earlier, I determined the meaning of the phrase “My Father’s house” in John 14:2 by looking at how Jesus himself had used that phrase earlier and how the phrase “the house of the LORD” was used throughout the OT. Why don’t we try a similar study on the word genea? Let’s start (kinda) small by only considering instances where it was paired with an inflection of the word for “this” in Matthew 24:34, οὗτος (hoytos, pronounced HOO-toss; Strong’s Number G3778); I’ll expand the search further as we go along.

But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, and say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds. (Matthew 11:16-19 NASB, emphasis added; see also Luke 7:29-35, where Luke leads into his parallel account of this occasion with the following: “When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.” — verses 29-30 NASB, underlining added)

 

Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.
“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.” (Matthew 12:39-45 NKJV, underlining and emphases added)

 

And while the crowds were thickly gathered together, He began to say, “This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation. The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. (Luke 11:29-32 NKJV, underlining and emphases added)

Note that when discussing the “sign of Jonah”, Jesus used “this generation” as shorthand for “An evil and adulterous generation”, “this wicked generation”, and “an evil generation”. Moreover, while the scribes and Pharisees prompted Jesus to make these statements, his words were also directed to the crowd around them. Now consider when the Pharisees badgered him about this again later, and Mark added “adulterous and sinful” to the list of, shall we say, colorful qualifiers for “this generation”:

The Pharisees came and began to argue with him, seeking from him a sign from heaven to test him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no [literally, “if a”] sign will be given to this generation.…
And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.… For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.” (Mark 8:11-12, 34, 38 ESV, underlining and emphases added)

 

And He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. They will say to you, ‘Look there! Look here!’ Do not go away, and do not run after them. For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day. But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. (Luke 17:22-27 NASB, underlining and emphasis added)

Aside from the obvious occasions in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, & Luke 21:32, there’s another passage from the Synoptics I’ve skipped (genea never appears in John’s Gospel). You might already have some idea of what I’m implying the definition of “this generation” to be, but now’s the time for us to start taking OT uses of the word “generation” into consideration. Let’s lead into our first example with the Gospel passages that allude to it: the Woes on the Scribes & Pharisees. This passage is long, so I’ll just include the snippet from Luke that includes the relevant Greek terms before quoting the entire passage from Matthew:

Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. (Luke 11:49-51 ESV, emphases added)

 

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
“Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold? And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it. And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’
“Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matthew 23:13-36 NKJV, emphasis added)

Note that Matthew’s Gospel has Jesus concluding this scathing monologue only 7 verses before the beginning of the Olivet Discourse. I’ve seen at least 2 people (including that preacher in his book!) claim that “this generation” in Matthew 23:36 refers to people who lived at the same time as Jesus (obviously based on the definition of the English word “generation”), insisting that the instance of the phrase in 24:34 must have the same meaning as the instance in 23:36 because they’re contextually connected.1390 But they don’t seem to consider that 23:36 is the only additional Biblical precedent Matthew 24:34 has behind it that 23:36 doesn’t have (with the possible exception of Luke 21:32, since the Great Temple Discourse might have occurred between verses 36 & 37 of Matthew 23, or between Matthew 23 & 24; of course, “this generation” obviously means the same thing in both Discourses, since this phrase occurs after the lists of signs of Jesus’ second coming in both Discourses)! In other words, why shouldn’t the instance in Matthew 23:36 in turn be interpreted in light of earlier uses of the term? In addition to all the other instances already mentioned, check out this OT passage that’s strikingly akin to the Woes on the Scribes & Pharisees:

There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men. (Proverbs 30:11-14 KJV, emphases added)

Granted, this passage uses a word other then genea in the LXX, but the Hebrew word in all 4 instances is דּוֹר (dôr, pronounced DORR; Strong’s Number H1755), the word that LXX uses of genea are often translated from. So now let’s consider the other OT uses of dôr (other than uses qualified by a number or in the phrases “from generation to generation” or simply “the generation”, since Jesus is never recorded using the term “generation” in those ways). Another passage that uses dôr but not genea is the following:

“Then the LORD heard the sound of your words, and He was angry and took an oath, saying, ‘Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him and to his sons I will give the land on which he has set foot, because he has followed the LORD fully.’ The LORD was angry with me [Moses] also on your account, saying, ‘Not even you shall enter there. Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall enter there; encourage him, for he will cause Israel to inherit it. (Deuteronomy 1:34-38 NASB, emphases and underlining added)

Interestingly, another passage in Matthew uses the word “generation” without “this”, and reveals another connection:

When they came to the crowd, a man came up to Jesus, falling on his knees before Him and saying, “Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is a lunatic and is very ill; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him.” And Jesus answered and said, “You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me.” And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once. (Matthew 17:14-18 NASB, underlining and emphasis added)

Luke’s parallel account also has “You unbelieving and perverted generation” (9:41b NASB, underlining and emphasis added), while Mark’s has Jesus’ answer starting with “O unbelieving generation” (Mark 9:19b NASB, underlining and emphasis added). The word for “perverted” in Matthew 17:17 & Luke 9:41 is the same word used early in Moses’ song in the LXX (the first word rendered “perverse” below), which is most likely the passage Jesus had in mind whenever he used those “colorful qualifiers” with genea (meaning this OT passage sets an especially important Biblical precedent for defining the term “this generation” in the Great Temple & Olivet Discourses — indeed, in every Biblical passage written since the Pentateuch! — pay special attention to the phrases that are simultaneously emphasized and underlined!):

“They have sinned, not pleasing him [literally, “not in Him”]; spotted children, a froward [literally, “crooked“] and perverse generation [genea; Masoretic Text dôr]… And the Lord saw, and was jealous; and was provoked by [literally, “through”] the anger [or “wrath”, or “violent passion”] of his sons and daughters, and said, I will turn away my face from them, and will show what shall happen to them in the last days; for it is a perverse [literally, “self-subverted“] generation [genea; Masoretic Text dôr], sons in whom is no faith.” (Deuteronomy 32:5, 19-20 BLXX, underlining and emphases added)

In case you’re wondering, the Hebrew word corresponding to “self-subverted” means “perversity”. Moreover, the Greek words for “perverse” and “self-subverted” are both perfect-tense participles in the middle voice — they’d done it to themselves! The adjective here for “froward”/”crooked” went on to be used in the same way by Peter at Pentecost of A.D. 30: “And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” (Acts 2:40 KJV, underlining and emphases added) So now, here’s every example from the Psalms:

“Because of the devastation of the afflicted, because of the groaning of the needy,
Now I will arise,” says the LORD; “I will set him in the safety for which he longs.”
The words of the LORD are pure words;
As silver tried in a furnace on the earth, refined seven times.
You, O LORD, will keep them;
You will preserve him from this generation [LXX genea hoytos] forever.
The wicked strut about on every side
When vileness is exalted among the sons of men. (Psalm 12:5-8 NASB, underlining and emphasis added)

 

For He established a testimony in Jacob
And appointed a law in Israel,
Which He commanded our fathers
That they should teach them to their children,
That the generation to come might know, even the children yet to be born,
That they may arise and tell them to their children,
That they should put their confidence in God
And not forget the works of God,
But keep His commandments,
And not be like their fathers,
A stubborn and rebellious generation [LXX genea],
A generation [LXX genea] that did not prepare its heart
And whose spirit was not faithful to God. (Psalm 78:5-8 NASB, underlining and emphases added)

Are you noticing a trend here? Jeremiah reinforces it:

“But where are your gods
Which you made for yourself?
Let them arise, if they can save you
In the time of your trouble;
For according to the number of your cities
Are your gods, O Judah.
“Why do you contend with Me?
You have all transgressed against Me,” declares the LORD.
“In vain I have struck your sons;
They accepted no chastening.
Your sword has devoured your prophets
Like a destroying lion.
“O generation, heed the word of the LORD.
Have I been a wilderness to Israel,
Or a land of thick darkness?
Why do My people say, ‘We are free to roam;
We will no longer come to You‘? (Jeremiah 2:28-31 NASB, underlining and emphasis added)

 

“You shall speak all these words to them, but they will not listen to you; and you shall call to them, but they will not answer you. You shall say to them, ‘This is the nation that did not obey the voice of the LORD their God or accept correction; truth has perished and has been cut off from their mouth.

‘Cut off your hair and cast it away,
And take up a lamentation on the bare heights;
For the LORD has rejected and forsaken
The generation [LXX genea] of His wrath.’

For the sons of Judah have done that which is evil in My sight,” declares the LORD, “they have set their detestable things in the house which is called by My name, to defile it. They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind. (Jeremiah 7:27-31 NASB, emphasis and underlining added)

Finally, while obviously not referring to wicked Israelites (as all the other instances above clearly do, with the possible exception of Psalm 12:7), the first instance of this phrase in the entire Bible still blatantly refers to a group of wicked people: “And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation [LXX genea hoytos].” (Genesis 7:1 KJV, emphasis added) And even this passage was invoked by Jesus in Luke 17:25-27, quoted 4 pages ago.

The evidence that the earliest Christians (who, before the Gospel was brought to the Samaritans in Acts 8, were all Jews who were intimately familiar with all the OT passages quoted above — Samaritans accepted the books of Moses, but rejected the rest of the OT; so they would’ve accepted the passages from Genesis & Deuteronomy quoted above, but rejected all the other OT quotes), starting with the Apostles, would’ve understood the phrase “this generation” in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, & Luke 21:32 to mean wicked Israelites, those who reject God’s word (a set of people that still has living members to this day, implying that at least some of the events described in the Olivet Discourse and the Great Temple Discourse must still be future) is overwhelming! (And I didn’t even get into the contrast between “the children of God” and “the children of the devil” in 1 John 3:10 NIV.) If you disagree with this interpretation, you have the burden of proof to make a more robust case for your position than the case I’ve presented here.


1386“This ONE Verse PROVES JESUS LIED? The END TIMES” <www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh3sdeJpR1U> MorgueOfficial. Posted on youtube.com October 10, 2020, accessed August 7, 2023. Ironically, at the 6:46 mark he gets close to answering his own challenge when adding in the lower-left corner of the screen: “SOME ALSO CLAIM IT’S A TRANSLATION ERROR” (although he doesn’t actually address this possibility at all in the video). While the translation isn’t technically erroneous, you’ll see here that the problem is partly due to something getting lost in translation.

1387Full Preterists claim all prophecies in the Bible were fulfilled by A.D. 70; but that would require us to conclude that the Curse has already been removed, among other absurdities. Partial Preterists are a bit more reasonable and claim only most Biblical prophecies were fulfilled by then; but I have yet to see any of them compellingly draw a consistent, non-arbitrary line between which Biblical prophecies have allegorical fulfillments versus literal ones (said another way, what hermeneutical principle is there to stop Partial Preterism from degrading into Full Preterism?). This is probably why non-futurist views of Revelation have survived for so long; if you’re imaginative enough, you can “explain away” just about any not-yet-fulfilled Biblical prophecy just by claiming an otherwise-unfulfilled detail symbolizes something that has happened!

1388G1074 – genea – Strong’s Greek Lexicon (kjv) <www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1074> Blue Letter Bible. Accessed July 20, 2023. Scroll to “Thayer’s Greek Lexicon”. Emphases in original. The word’s primary meaning is actually “a begetting, birth, [or] nativity”, but Thayer notes that it’s only ever used this way in the secular Greek literature; and in any case, that meaning hardly makes sense in these contexts.

1389Josephus, Flavius. Wars of the Jews. Book 6, Chapter 9, Section 2. William Whiston’s 1737 English translation of this book may be read at <http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-6.html>. Accessed August 5, 2023.

1390The other example I can remember is at: Anon. Revelation, Matthew 24 and Why Context is Crucial <www.bereanpatriot.com/revelation-matthew-24-and-why-context-is-crucial> Berean Patriot. Posted on bereanpatriot.com September 12, 2017, modified January 5, 2023, accessed August 7, 2023. Ironically, the author exposes his own view (Partial Preterism) as totally foreign to the earliest post-Revelation Christians by linking to the Wikipedia article for “Preterism”, which acknowledges that this school of thought on Biblical prophecy has only existed since the Counter-Reformation period (A.D. 1545-1648)!


{HIDMF. 810-817. Italics, boldface, underlining, content in brackets, and Footnote numbering in original.}

Thoughts?

Forgiveness Is Conditioned On Repentance

Introduction

I don’t know about you, but just about every Christian resource I came across for most of my life taught that if you’re a Christian and someone wrongs you, you’re obligated to forgive them, no matter what. The main proof-text for this idea is Matthew 18:21-22.

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times. (ESV)

The standard of unconditional forgiveness and apology may have been societally workable when the culture of the U.S. was still overwhelmingly Christian, and so even non-Christian parents had the sense to teach their kids to do this sort of thing (e.g., the inclusion of “Say you’re SORRY when you HURT somebody” in this famous list of important things people learn in kindergarten that was written by a Unitarian Universalist). But we (or, depending on who’s reading this, I) live in post-Christian America, where most unbelieving parents don’t teach their kids this (or worse, teach a bastardized version of “eye for an eye”). Not to mention the mob mentality behind “Cancel Culture”, which does seem to get results (well, sometimes).

The frustrating result is that those people and their children typically don’t own up to their misbehavior, and it can be psychologically torturous to think, “Well, I forgave them and am correcting my behavior, but they forgave me and haven’t changed their behavior. This feels so one-sided.” It can even drive you to the point where you start seriously asking God, “Why should I keep apologizing to people if I never get an apology in return?”

Does God Command Christians to be Defenseless against the World?

It doesn’t help that major passages like Matthew 18:15-20 that explicitly speak of imposing consequences on those who wrong you (or passages like Ezekiel 3:17-21 that explicitly obligate someone to warn people about their sin) only apply with fellow believers. It makes you feel like you have no recourse with unbelievers except prayer and forgiveness, which are increasingly seeming not to work in our day. That, too, can lead you to question whether God is really giving you commands that help the situation at all.

But again, we live in post-Christian America, which is much more culturally-similar to the ancient Roman Empire that persecuted Christians for nearly 3 centuries (and then continued doing so through Roman Catholicism under the guise of “stamping out schismatics”). And in that cultural climate, Peter’s remarks are more necessary to heed than they were in Christian America:

For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. (1 Peter 2:20-23 ESV)

But how can we conscionably do that if it essentially means giving up any right to do anything that might have an impact on them? Don’t we want them to change for the better? Don’t we care about them and their salvation? If it’s a family member who’s wronging us repeatedly, shouldn’t we have some recourse that enables us to mend the relationship? And besides, doesn’t God obligate us to stick up for those who can’t stick up for themselves (e.g., Psalm 82:3, Proverbs 31:8-9, Isaiah 1:17, Galatians 6:2)–and by implication, ourselves when we are able?

“It Is Also Written…”

It’s funny how we often think we know what the Bible says on a certain topic, but overlook other passages that demonstrate the statements aren’t as absolute as we assume. I recall, way back when I was attending AWANA at Grace Bible Church in Elmhurst, Illinois, coming across a booklet that used Matthew 4:5-7 to lead into this point:

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“ ‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” [an out-of-context quotation of Psalm 91:11-12; look at verse 9!]

Jesus answered him, It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” [quoting Deuteronomy 6:16]

(NIV, boldface added)

The booklet went on to go over a few hot-button issues in Christendom, titling the sections, “What Is ‘Also Written’ About [insert issue here]?” So, in that vein, let’s ask: What is “also written” about dealing with unbelievers who wrong us (especially repeatedly)?

As it turns out, there IS a way that Jesus authorized us to substantially stick up for ourselves (or at least, the truth) and directly create potential for positive results when unbelievers sin against us, rather than just taking whatever unbelievers throw at us, walking away, or praying. You see, Luke records another account where Jesus talks about repeated forgiving, but uses significantly different language (underscoring the fact that this was a totally separate occasion than Matthew 18:15-22). And that passage holds the key to resolving this entire dilemma that Christian America has created for itself over the generations:

Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and IF HE REPENTS, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must [literally, “you shall”; future indicative, not imperative] forgive him. (Luke 17:3-4 ESV, boldface, underlining, and all-caps added)

Not only does this tell us that Christians are authorized to stick up for themselves by rebuking unbelievers who wrong them (which is to be done from a place of trying to correct their course1–rather than just abusively vilifying them, which would fall under the word for “revile” in 1 Peter 2:23; see also 1 Corinthians 4:12), but all the underlined instances of “if” show that Jesus regarded forgiveness as something to be conditionally done. THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING! If someone doesn’t repent upon wronging you and/or being rebuked for it, then Jesus doesn’t obligate you to forgive them!

Moreover, the fuller context of Matthew 18:21-22 shows that Jesus was using this standard there, as well. Consider the parable immediately following Jesus’ words in verse 22:

Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. 24 When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents [a talent was equivalent to 6,000 denarii, and a denarius is a day’s wages; hence, 10,000 talents would be worth over 164,274 years’ wages!]. 25 And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.’ 27 And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt. 28 But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii [100 days’ wages], and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay what you owe.’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you.’ 30 He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. 31 When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. 32 Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ 34 And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers {the Greek word properly refers to “one who elicits the truth by the use of the rack”}, until he should pay all his debt. 35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.” (Matthew 18:23-35 ESV, boldface and underlining added)

Jesus had introduced the use of debt as a metaphor for sin when teaching his disciples how to pray: “and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.” (Matthew 6:12 KJV) As I’m sure we all know, the usual phrasing in Catholic circles is “And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.” Each servant’s pleading for more time to pay their debt and promising to follow through would then correspond to genuine repentance. And the master’s response in verses 32-33 (underlined above) constitutes a rebuke. All these elements are present in Matthew 18; they’re just usually ignored for the sake of brevity (much to Christendom’s detriment).

Finally, this is consistent with how God forgives people in general: remember, repentance is one of the requirements to obtain salvation (Luke 13:3,5; Acts 2:37-38; 17:30)! If you won’t repent, then God won’t forgive your sins (and thus, the path for your salvation won’t be cleared)! So if someone wrongs you, and won’t repent of that, then they’re automatically not repenting toward God, either. And He will judge them accordingly–whether on the Day of the Lord, or at the Lake of Fire.

Likewise, Matthew 18:34 implies that forgiveness can be rescinded. This is consistent with God revoking His offer of forgiveness and salvation for someone who falls away from the Faith. So if an unrepentant person you previously forgave tries to guilt-trip you with “I thought you forgave me,” you have every Biblical right to say “I’ve taken it back because you obviously haven’t changed.”

Conclusion

This should take a lot of spiritual and psychological stress off most of my readers’ shoulders! Hopefully even enough to free up enough mental energy to follow Christ’s example and handle all the abuse & persecution in accordance with other passages–a skill that will become more and more vital as the apocalypse approaches. I recall a minister at the Brookfield Church of Christ saying that sometimes you need to pray to forgive people LOTS OF TIMES before it sinks in to the point where you’ve moved on. Now I know that unless and until the person repents of what they did, I don’t need to try to forgive them AT ALL! (And I generally find it easy to forgive people who display genuine repentance, so I’ll welcome them with open arms if they do!) That frees up my spiritual and psychological resources to deal with all the other trials and temptations that come my way in life and would overwhelm me otherwise.

I pray the same goes for you, dear reader.


  1. Notice that this can potentially enable Christians to turn wrongs from unbelievers into evangelism opportunities! People at the Brookfield Church of Christ have long told me that my best shot at exposing unbelievers to the truth is to “be a light for them with your lifestyle, and when they recognize that something’s different about you, want it for themselves, and ask you what it is, invite them to come here”. So it’s very refreshing to learn of a more immediate alternative other than seeking them out open-air-preaching style! (Plus, since such evangelism would be prompted by their misbehavior, I could rightly say if things go too far south that they were the instigator!) ↩︎

Processing Feelings & Grief: A Brief Case Study & Primer

Something happened to me recently that offered me a great opportunity to post something more on the “Autistic” side of this blog than the “Apologist” side. Since I’ve failed to update this blog for nearly 2 months now and this post will be much shorter than usual (not even 750 words!), I decided to take that opportunity.

Background

I had a text conversation with someone over something that was bothering me. I need not go into detail to make my point; let’s just say it was a conversation that probably should’ve happened several years earlier, but the overall situation and the character of the people involved had become more obvious in hindsight.

I wound up saying everything I wanted to, basically venting and unloading my grievances over the situation. I wound up feeling a little better because I finally got an opportunity to say everything about the situation that made me upset.

Reconciliation didn’t happen; but again, thanks to several years of hindsight, I was more in a position to accept that than ever before. I can pretty much guarantee some Bible verses pertaining to all this will come up in my upcoming series on biblical wisdom literature, but for the sake of confidentiality, I won’t say which ones.

However, I started feeling very tense in my head once the conversation was over; like I needed to cry but couldn’t. Recognizing that grief was involved (both due to the nature and outcome of the conversation and because a girl I’d had great discussions with by messaging didn’t feel chemistry when we met in person, so we decided to “just be friends”–only two nights before this conversation), I remembered something I heard when going through Grief Share 2-3 years back: feelings associated with grief can hit you at any time, and you should give yourself space to feel them. So I went into a separate room and tried one of the sensory processing exercises I learned from Asperger Experts (who I recently learned had changed their name to Autism Experts; to be fair, they said in an older video that they retained the “Asperger’s” label even after the DSM-5 removed it as an official diagnosis because most people were still familiar with that term–things have changed enough in the last few years for them to change their mind on that, I guess; also, while Google’s AI overview tried to partially attribute the name change to an attempt to distance themselves from Hans Asperger, the fact that Asperger worked for the Nazis is hardly “breaking news”–why do you think the British Army confiscated his research notes after WWII?). AE founder Danny Raede calls this exercise “Being With That”, and acknowledges it as a form of “Mindfulness”, but I prefer to call it a “Sensory Scan”.

The Exercise

I sat in a chair and paid attention to what sensations I felt within my body: my tight chest while breathing, pressure on the upper sides of my head, a feeling of dryness in my mouth, tension in my jaw while my mouth was open. But the important thing was that whatever physical sensations I noticed, I attached no significance or meaning to them; I just acknowledged them, paid attention to them, and let them happen. And as another sensation grew more prominent than the one I was focusing on, I’d shift my focus to the new one.

This is especially useful for autists–like many autistic people would be in this scenario, I wasn’t sure what emotions I was feeling (although I think at least grief, anger, sadness, and senses of betrayal and loss were in the mix), but whether I could label it all didn’t matter; all that mattered was that I let myself feel it all in my body.

Eventually, I managed to start crying, but kept focusing on my internal sensations. I kept doing both until my face was ready to relax. Then I wiped the tears from my eyes–and felt refreshed and ready to get back to business.

In only 10 minutes, I had processed my feelings (at least, as much as I needed to at the time; I wound up taking a nap from emotional overwhelm later that same day). So for the time being, I could move on with my day.

Just thought I’d give autistic people (or those in their lives) some free tips!

In the Days of … WHICH Kings? Part 2: Identifying the Antichrist (Mostly)

Last Modified:

Part 9 of this series

I suspect you’re curious about that word “Mostly”. As many details as I bring out about the Antichrist here, you’ll see that there’s one I actually can’t pin down.

Having gone over many of the things that Pulliam overlooked in the prophecies of Daniel 2 & 7-12 in Part 1 (a handful more will be brought out in this post, plus some things he overlooked in Revelation!), it’s time to show you how my position coheres with all of those things.

The Fourth Beast & The Little Horn

As mentioned in Part 1, the first beast of Daniel 7, “like a lion with eagles’ wings” (Daniel 7:4b NLT), represents the Babylonian empire; the “second one, resembling a bear” (verse 5b NASB), represents the Persian empire; and the third one, “like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back” (verse 6b ESV), represents the Alexandrian empire. However, while the description of the fourth beast in Daniel 7:7-8 is quite vivid, an even more vivid description is given in Revelation 13. Observe:

After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed [literally, “behold, in this horn were”] eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.

(Daniel 7:7-8 1995 NASB)

1 And the dragon [literally, “And he”; TR has “And I”] stood on the sand of the seashore [literally, “the sea”].
Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his [literally, “its”; the pronoun is neuter, not masculine] horns were ten diadems, and on his [“its”; neuter, not masculine] heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his [“its”] feet were like those of a bear, and his [“its”] mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him [“it”] his power and his throne and great authority. 3 I saw one of his [“its”] heads as if it had been slain [literally, “been slaughtered unto death”], and his [“its”] fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him [“it”]?” 5 There was given to him [“it”] a mouth speaking arrogant words [literally, “speaking great things”] and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him [“it”]. 6 And he [“it”] opened his [“its”] mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those [TR has “tabernacle, and those”] who dwell in heaven.
7 It was also given to him [“it”] to make war with the saints [or “holy ones”] and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him [“it”]. 8 All who dwell on the earth [or “land”] will worship him [note the sudden shift from neuter to masculine, revealing that the beast represents a man], everyone whose name has not been written [literally, “worship him whose name has not been written”–most manuscripts have the plural forms of “whose” and often “names” (TR has both), which yields a grammatical absurdity because all manuscripts have the singular form of “has been written”; the 1995 NASB follows a very old minority reading that has all three terms in singular forms, and so must be the correct reading] from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain [literally, “written in the book of life of the Lamb, of the one having been slaughtered because of the casting-down of the world order”; note that the phrase “of the Lamb, of the one having been slaughtered” here follows Granville Sharp’s 2nd Rule (article-substantive-article-substantive-etc., where all terms are of the same case; in this instance, genitive), portraying “the Lamb” and “the one having been slaughtered” as the same entity].

(Revelation 13:1-8 1995 NASB, underlining and boldface added)

The underlined descriptors show that the fourth beast would have features of the first three; that is, the kingdom Christ strikes directly (Daniel 2:34, as noted in Part 1) would have certain things in common with the Babylonian, Persian, and Alexandrian empires (and they wouldn’t necessarily be things those empires had in common with each other).

Speaking of which, note that Daniel 7 gives us insightful information about the 10 horns (which Pulliam completely ignored):

While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed [literally, “behold, in this horn were”] eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts. …
“Then I desired to know the exact meaning of [literally, “to make certain concerning”] the fourth beast, which was different from all the others [literally, “all of them”], exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet, 20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than [literally, “and its appearance great beyond”] its associates. 21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints [literally, “holy ones”] and overpowering them 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of [literally, “was given for”] the saints [holy ones] of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints [holy ones] took possession of the kingdom.
23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth [or “land” or “ground”] and tread it down and crush it. 24 As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak out against the Most High [literally, “And words against the Most High he will speak”] and wear down the saints of the Highest One [literally, “and toward the holy ones of the Highest One he will deal intense affliction”; the word for “wear down” is in the Pael form, indicating intensive action], and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

(Daniel 7:8,19-25 1995 NASB, boldface added)

I’ll omit verses 26-27 from this discussion because I already dealt with them in Part 1. Also, the fact that the phrase “a time, times, and half a time” from verse 25 (which also appears in Daniel 12:7) is quoted in Revelation 12:14 tells us that these three passages (the only 3 places in the Bible where this phrase occurs) are all referring to the same period of time. And I’ll explain in Appendix D of my upcoming book {specifically, HIDMF p. 757-759} that I identify this period of time as the 42 lunar months between the implementation of the Mark of the Beast system and the sun turning dark and the moon turning blood red, in light of the literal phrasing of Daniel 12:6-7 implying that the saints (at least, those who didn’t flee to the place(s) of safety) will be reduced to beggars by the time the righteous are resurrected–because they can’t buy or sell things for themselves: “And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters [literally, “which was going from above to the waters”] of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders [literally, “How long is the end of the wonders”]? And [literally, “And then”; waw-consecutive construction] I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters [literally, “which was going from above to the waters”] of the river, when [literally, “river, and then”; waw-consecutive] he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and [literally, “and then”; waw-consecutive] sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power [literally, “the open hand”] of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.” (KJV).

As for the horns, the other boldfaced phrases in the above quotation of Daniel 7 give us quite a few important details about the “little horn”. The fact that the ten horns represent ten kings that would arise “out of this kingdom [singular]” demands that all 10 kings are of the same kingdom, not distinct kingdoms. Moreover, at least 3 of these kings must be contemporaries of the “little horn”, since his “subdu[ing] three kings” is represented by “three of the first horns [being] pulled out by the roots before [the little horn]” which “came up among them”. Hence, the little horn is an 11th king who would join the show after all of the first 10, and would conquer 3 of those 10 at some point. This strongly implies (though admittedly doesn’t demand) that all 10 kings will be ruling their single kingdom simultaneously. Of course, all 11 of these characters are mentioned in Revelation 17:12-18, which removes all doubt on this point: not only does this passage show that all 11 would be alive simultaneously, but also that Rome isn’t their capital city (after all, these 11 people team up to destroy the city of Rome) and thus, that this kingdom technically isn’t a “revived Roman Empire”. However, I don’t see any details in the original text of Daniel 7 or Revelation 17 that enable us to determine whether he’ll conquer these 3 kings before or after all 10 hand over their kingdom to him (Revelation 17:17).

Lest Pulliam object to these strong evidences that the kingdom being referred to in these verses wasn’t the Roman Empire by pointing out that verse 23 informs us that “The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth,” (KJV) even including a definite article on “fourth” in the Aramaic text, this argument to salvage the idea of this being the “fourth kingdom” of Daniel 2:40 (i.e., the Roman Empire) only works if one imports the numbered kingdoms from Daniel 2 into this passage. And while I’d admire the attempt to interpret Daniel’s prophecies according to chronological Biblical precedent, this particular attempt bumps into the biggest exception to the chronological Biblical precedent hermeneutic: one should not import the meaning of a term in an earlier passage into an instance of that term in a later passage if the immediate context of the later passage already defines that term differently. And in this case, it does: “These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings who will arise from the earth.” (Daniel 7:17 NASB) The use of the definite article on “fourth” in the original Aramaic of verse 23 merely tells us that all 4 of the kings mentioned in verse 17 will rule distinct kingdoms. Nothing in this passage indicates that all 4 will arise consecutively, so importing the consecutive nature of the 3rd and 4th kingdoms of Daniel 2 into Daniel 7 is to go beyond where the text warrants.

42 Months Versus 2,300 Days

Moreover, note that the little horn would wage war against the holy ones, deal intense persecution against them “for a time, times, and half a time” (i.e., for 42 (12×(1+2+½)) lunar months), and “will intend to make alterations in times and in law”. History tells us that Antiochus Epiphanes precisely fulfilled these details–almost. Antiochus issued a bunch of edicts to try to force the entire Seleucid Kingdom to follow the same religious rituals–many (if not all) of which directly contradicted the Mosaic Laws God had bound those in Judea to. This became egregiously obvious when Antiochus set up the Abomination of Desolation in Jerusalem’s second temple on Kislev 25 of 168 B.C. and celebrated by sacrificing a pig (one of the most unclean animals in existence, as far as Jews were concerned–pretty much the last thing you’d offer in the Jerusalem temple) to Zeus on the temple altar! Among the edicts were details indicating that if a copy of the Torah was found, it was to be burned and its owner executed; and that if Jews circumcised their sons (as the Mosaic Law required), the parents, the son, their entire families, and the one(s) performing the circumcision would all be executed! These are blatant examples of Antiochus Epiphanes “speak[ing] out against the Most High… wear[ing] down the saints of the Highest One” and “intend[ing] to make alterations in times and in law”.

However, the amount of time he did this for was not 42 lunar months–it was only 36 or 37 (or possibly 38), since Josephus informs us that the Maccabees took down the Abomination of Desolation and cleansed the second temple 3 years to the day after Antiochus defiled it (i.e., on Kislev 25 of 165 B.C.); this is why Hanukkah (the feast commemorating the Maccabees’ rededication of the temple) starts on Kislev 25 every year.

Now, by the Hebrew calendar in use today, 12 months is 354 days ± 1 day, depending on whether Cheshvan and Kislev have 29 or 30 days each (i.e., 353 days if both these 2 months have 29 days, 355 days if both these 2 months have 30 days, 354 days if one of these months has 29 days and the other has 30). There’s also the consideration that the Hebrew calendar has always inserted leap months to keep the lunar calendar on track with the solar year; hence, the Hebrew calendar is properly called a ”lunisolar” calendar. When a leap month wasn’t needed, the month of Adar was only 29 days long; when a leap month was needed, Adar was 30 days long, and Adar II (the leap month) was 29 days long instead. Hence, a leap month adds exactly 30 days to the length of a Hebrew year. Hence, the number of days to a Hebrew year is, to use what mathematicians call “interval notation” (the square brackets indicate that the values at the end of the interval are included in the range of possibilities): [353,355] U [383,385]. Now, the modern Hebrew calendar uses a 19-year Metonic cycle to determine which years should have leap months; as long as this cycle is used, it’s impossible for the Hebrew calendar to have 3 or more non-leap years in a row (in fact, there are two sets of 3 consecutive years in each 19-year Metonic cycle where 2 of those years have leap months!). However, historical analysis shows that the Hebrew calendar didn’t adhere to this cycle until centuries after the NT was completed. Until the second temple was destroyed, the Hebrew calendar was strictly observation-based (this approach was gradually replaced and codified over the ensuing centuries because the observations had to be done from Jerusalem, which was impossible during the centuries when no Israelites lived there); hence, throughout the entire Biblical and Intertestamental periods (including the days of the Seleucid Kingdom), it was theoretically possible for the Hebrew calendar to have 3 non-leap years in a row.

Hence, the total number of days that Jerusalem’s second temple was defiled by Antiochus Epiphanes could’ve been any value in the following three ranges (the first range has no leap months, the second has 1 leap month, the third has 2 leap months): [1059, 1065] U [1089, 1095] U [1119, 1125]. As I mentioned in Part 1, none of these numbers are even half as much as the 2300 specified in Daniel 8:14. However, in Appendix D of my book, I calculate (assuming, of course, that Israelites won’t return to a strictly observation-based calendar by the time Jesus returns) the “time, times, and half a time” of Revelation 12:14 to span the time between and including the following dates: April 30th (Iyyar 1) 2033 to September 21st (Elul 29) 2036. This amounts to exactly 42 months on the modern Hebrew calendar, and the number of days that fall in that time range is 1241 {HIDMF p. 755-758}. This, too, falls considerably short of the number in Daniel 8:14.

But watch what happens if we take the smallest number in the range of possible numbers of days for which Jerusalem and its second temple could’ve been “trampled underfoot” (Daniel 8:13c ESV) under Antiochus Epiphanes, and add it with the number of days for which I predict “the nations… will trample the holy city” (Revelation 11:2b ESV) — including Jerusalem’s third temple — under the Antichrist. Drumroll, please…

1,059
+1,241
2,300

Now we see why the “2,300 evenings and mornings” of Daniel 8:13-14 are mentioned in the context of the rise and devastation of Antiochus Epiphanes (verses 9-12), yet “belongeth to the time of the end.” (verse 17c ASV) This defilement was to be split between two separate periods of history! I must re-emphasize here that I have yet to see any other explanation for this number where the days work out to exactly 2,300.

Resuscitation & 666

But even if the means of defilement are the same, why should we connect them if they occur under two different people? Well, there are several other Biblical passages that shed light on this. Let’s start with Revelation 11 & 13:

Then there was given me a measuring rod [literally, “a reed”] like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses [note that the word “my” implies that Jesus himself was the messenger speaking here, cf. Revelation 10:9-10], and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.…
When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up [literally, “the beast, the one coming up”; the present tense of the active participle tells us the “coming up” coincides with the end of the two witnesses’ testimony] out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.

(Revelation 11:1-3,7 1995 NASB, boldface added)

And the dragon [literally, “And he”; TR has “And I”] stood on the sand of the [sea].
Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on [its] horns were ten diadems, and on [its] heads were blasphemous names. And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and [its] feet were like those of a bear, and [its] mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave [it] his power and his throne and great authority. I saw one of [its] heads as if it had been [slaughtered unto death], and [its] fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with [it]?” There was given to [it] a mouth speaking [great things] and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to [it]. And [it] opened [its] mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those [TR has “tabernacle, and those”] who dwell in heaven.
It was also given to [it] to make war with the [holy ones] and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to [it]. All who dwell on the earth [or “land”] will worship [him whose name has not been written] [in the book of life of the Lamb, of the one having been slaughtered because of the casting-down of the world order].

(Revelation 13:1-8 1995 NASB, boldface added; return to my quotation of this passage near the start of this post for explanations to the terms in brackets)

Note the similarities between what the Antichrist would do, as recorded in Revelation 13:5-7 (“There was given to it a mouth speaking great things… and tongue and nation was given to it.”), and what history records Antiochus Epiphanes did in 168-165 B.C. Indeed, “Epiphanes” (Greek Ἐπιφανής) literally means “God manifest”. What does that tell you about what Antiochus IV thought of himself?

It’s significant that both instances of the word for “coming up” in the above passages are spelled exactly the same in the Greek: ἀναβαῖνον–in fact, the only other instance of this inflection in the entire New Testament is in Revelation 13:11, referring to the “false prophet” mentioned in Revelation 16:13, 19:20, & 20:10 (KJV). The mention that “one of its heads… had been slaughtered to death, and its fatal wound was healed” strengthens the case that the beast “coming up” refers to the Antichrist being raised from the dead, albeit not in a glorified body1 (hence my use of the word “resuscitation” instead of “resurrection” in this section’s title; 1 Corinthians 15:23 makes it clear that nobody besides Jesus himself would ever be resurrected before Jesus returns–note the phrase “at His parousia” at the end of the verse). This is reinforced even further by the remark that the Antichrist’s name “has not been written in the book of life of the Lamb”, implying that his fate will have already been sealed–because he’d already died. And believe it or not, another hint at this can be found in a potential cross-reference for the number 666:

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate [or “decode”] the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. (Revelation 13:18 1995 NASB)

The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six. (Ezra 2:13 ASV)

Ancient Hebrew names just about universally had meanings, since they were based on already-existing words; this is why practically all translators — starting with the 70 Israelite elders responsible for the very first Bible translation, the Septuagint version of the Pentateuch circa 250 B.C. — have always been careful to transliterate proper names, rather than directly translate them as if they’re ordinary words (but let’s face it: it’s a rare occasion that the context doesn’t make it obvious which was intended!). So, what was the meaning of the name “Adonikam”? “Risen Master”, “My Lord Arose”, or “Lord of Rising”. It doesn’t take a genius to see how this supports the Antichrist as being someone who’s back from the dead!

I sincerely doubt Pulliam (not to mention most other Christians, since they wouldn’t realize how to do so) has thought to connect these two verses (I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s never even noticed this number’s presence in Ezra 2:13), especially in light of his own discussion on the number 666 in Lesson 23 (“Overview of the Book of Revelation (Part 2)”):

There are two views of the number of the beast that become likely. Walvoord takes the position that the number ‘6’ is repeated three times to emphasize that the beast comes up short of the divine completeness presented in the number ‘7’. There is a very good possibility that he is correct.
Another view is that the numbers should be used as a calculation of a name. Each letter of the alphabet is assigned a number in this process called “gematria.” The problem most expositors find with this view is the fact that a number is not easily converted into a name. The combinations become seemingly limitless as the number gets larger, but we must bear in mind that it had to make sense to those original readers. If this view is adopted, the most likely calculation for ‘666’ would yield “Nero Caesar” in the Hebrew alphabet and the same in Latin if the marginal ‘616’ is used. It only becomes likely because the first readers would have had no trouble recognizing Nero in the descriptions (especially Revelation 13 & 17).

{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 247-248. Boldface and italics in original.}

The biggest problem with this claim is that the Hebrew gematria value for “Nero Caesar” (Hebrew נרו סזר; n-ro s-z-r) is not 666! The consonantal Hebrew spelling (remember, vowel points weren’t used in Hebrew until after Revelation was written) yields a gematria value of 50+200+6+60+7+200=523. Even if we’re more generous and add letters to act as pseudovowels, spelling the name as “נירו סאזאר” (niro sezar), we still only reach 50+10+200+6+60+1+7+1+200=535. Following the Greek spelling of Caesar as Καῖσαρ (Kaisar), replacing the samekh (ס) with a kaph (כ) and the zayin (ז) with a samekh (נירו כאסאר) we only reach 50+10+200+6+20+1+60+1+200=548. Spelling Kaisar with qoph (ק) instead of kaph and with an extra yodh alongside the first aleph (נירו קאיסאר) would allow us to reach 50+10+200+6+100+1+10+60+1+200=638. Starting Kaisar with sin (ש) instead, even without replacing zayin with samekh or adding pseudovowels (נרו סזר), causes us to overshoot 666: 50+200+6+300+7+200=763. Clearly, “Nero Caesar” doesn’t add up to 666 in Hebrew, no matter how you spell it!

If we shift our attention to Greek gematria, the gematria value for “Nero” (Greek ΝΕΡΩ) on its own is far greater than 666! The reason is that the letter ‘o’ at the end of Nero’s name is a long ‘o’ (like in the English word “tote”), not a short ‘o’ (like in the English word “tot”). A short ‘o’ is represented by the Greek letter omicron (Ο), which has a value of 70; a long ‘o’ is represented by the Greek letter omega (Ω), which has a value of 800. Thus, any name that includes this letter (or the letter psi (Ψ), corresponding to the English ‘ps’ and having a value of 700) is guaranteed to have a gematria value greater than 666. Indeed, Νερω has a value of 50+5+100+800=955.

Don’t believe me when I give you these numbers? Check out the charts at this webpage. Moreover, Pulliam’s source citation for his claim about “666” in Hebrew and “616” in Latin is as follows: “cf. Shailer Mathews, “Beast,” Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, p87.” {p. 248, fn 10} That entry from Hastings’ Dictionary of the Bible is available online here (after all, it was originally published in 1909, and is now in the Public Domain); you tell me where it gives the spellings and adds up the numbers. Makes me wonder how many of Pulliam’s other source citations fail to support the points he’s citing them for! Moreover, the paragraph just after the portion Pulliam is referring to shows that Shailer Mathews was evidently influenced by the radical skeptical scholars of the late 19th century: “The present difficulty in making the identification is due not only to the process of redaction, but also to the highly complex and, for the modem mind, all but unintelligible fusion of the various elements of the Antichrist belief” (boldface added). Anyone who peddles the claims of the Documentarian camp (i.e., that the Bible has been cobbled together from a hodgepodge of sources, gutted of details, etc. over the centuries) should not be trusted as an authority by Christians, especially modern Christians who have access to the countless findings since the early 20th century that dismantle every last one of the Documentarians’ core premises. {“The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict”. McDowell, Josh. 1999. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson. 389-533.} That Pulliam is willing to back up his preterist interpretation of Revelation 13:18 by citing someone who reached that conclusion while working from a premise that anti-Biblical is quite telling. Couldn’t he have found a scholarly source for this view that didn’t so blatantly reject the Bible’s divine authorship?

That said, “Antiochus” (Ἀντίοχος) has a value of 1+50+300+10+70+600+70+200=1301, “Epiphanes” (Ἐπιφανής) has a value of 5+80+10+500+1+50+8+200=854, and Antiochus’ other nickname among his contemporaries, Epimanes (Ἐπιμανής, meaning “the Mad One”), has a value of 5+80+10+40+1+50+8+200=394. So if the number 666 is meant to be a gematria value for a name, then it obviously won’t be any of these names!

On the other hand, “Antiochus” was his throne name. The Roman historian Livy said that Antiochus IV’s birth name was “Mithradates”–at least, that’s how most historians spell it. You see, Livy actually wrote in Latin, transliterating the name as “Mithridate” {an English translation of the passage is available here; note that the “Antiochus” referred to in this passage is Antiochus III, in light of the details of the passage corresponding to events occurring in 197 B.C.}. Hence, we don’t know if the consensus of historians is spelling it correctly. After all, some sources use “Mithradatas” as an alternative spelling for this name (e.g., see this page for an ancient Greek coin minted less than a century after Antiochus IV’s death); apparently, the -ᾱς ending is more archaic {note also that the genitive singular inflection for both the -ᾱς and -ης endings is -ου, just as seen on that coin; this corroborates my claim that either spelling is a legitimate interpretation for such evidence}. And watch what happens for this name in Greek, following the older spelling with alpha instead of eta: ΜΙΘΡΑΔΑΤΑΣ=40+10+9+100+1+4+1+300+1+200=666. It’s also quite telling that this name, Μιθραδατᾱς, is the Greek form of the Iranic name Mihrdāt (meaning “given by Mithra“, referring to the ancient Iranian sun god), which itself derives from the Old Iranian Miθra-dāta–which is just “Mithradatas” without the final “s” sound!

(Personally, I also find a name meaning “given by Mithra” particularly significant for the Antichrist, in light of all the “Christ-mythers” who claim Jesus was “based on” Mithra. Of course, what these people don’t tell you is that all the evidence for the supposed parallels between Jesus and Mithra come from Mithraic sources dating to the 2nd-4th centuries A.D. It’s therefore tempting to speculate that the Roman Mithra cult was trying to retain followers who’d otherwise convert to Christianity by portraying Mithra as an alternative Christ–remember, the Greek prefix “anti-” meant “instead of”, not “against”. I wouldn’t, though, since the parallels between Mithra and Jesus are very stretched to begin with!2 However, I can see the Antichrist twisting such Christ-myth arguments for his own benefit–perhaps these will be among the “great things and blasphemies” — Revelation 13:5 KJV — he’ll speak.)

But of course, I won’t be dogmatic that the Antichrist actually will use the name “Mithradatas” (spelled Μιθραδατς instead of Μιθραδατης) when he comes. After all, Irenaeus also had something to say about “the marginal ‘616’” Pulliam mentioned, that not only shows that “666” is the correct reading and gives us third-hand testimony (based on oral tradition received from his teacher Polycarp, who had himself received it from the author of Revelation!) that the number 666 was to be understood as a gematria value for a name, but also reinforces the fact that the earliest church fathers unanimously understood Revelation as referring to events still future from their own time!

Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of the Apocalypse], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end) — I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks. {i.e., 60 is Ξ and 10 is Ι, so the scribe may have accidentally made the middle stroke vertical instead of horizontal; bear in mind that Greek lowercase letters didn’t come along until later.}] Others then received this reading without examination; some in their simplicity, and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious number. Now, as regards those who have done this in simplicity, and without evil intent, we are at liberty to assume that pardon will be granted them by God. But as for those who, for the sake of vainglory, lay it down for certain that names containing the spurious number are to be accepted, and affirm that this name, hit upon by themselves, is that of him who is to come; such persons shall not come forth without loss, because they have led into error both themselves and those who confided in them. Now, in the first place, it is loss to wander from the truth, and to imagine that as being the case which is not; then again, as there shall be no light punishment [inflicted] upon him who either adds or subtracts anything from the Scripture, under that such a person must necessarily fall. Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against.

These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. This, too, the apostle affirms: When they shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction shall come upon them. And Jeremiah does not merely point out his sudden coming, but he even indicates the tribe from which he shall come, where he says, We shall hear the voice of his swift horses from Dan; the whole earth shall be moved by the voice of the neighing of his galloping horses: he shall also come and devour the earth, and the fullness thereof, the city also, and they that dwell therein. This, too, is the reason that this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which are saved. {Irenaeus overlooked a couple points when quoting Jeremiah 8:16 here, which was actually prophesying Judah’s fall to Nebuchadnezzar: Dan was the northernmost tribe of Israel, so it was the first to see the approach of the Assyrians before Jeremiah’s day and the Babylonians in the then-near future, both of whom approached from the north. Also, Dan’s name is included among the 12 tribes named on the gates of restored Jerusalem in Revelation 21:12, per Ezekiel 48:32.}

It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfilment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved. For if there are many names found possessing this number, it will be asked which among them shall the coming man bear. It is not through a want of names containing the number of that name that I say this, but on account of the fear of God, and zeal for the truth: for the name Evanthas (ΕΥΑΝΘΑΣ) contains the required number {5+400+1+50+9+1+200=666}, but I make no allegation regarding it. Then also Lateinos (ΛΑΤΕΙΝΟΣ) has the number six hundred and sixty-six {30+1+300+5+10+50+70+200=666}; and it is a very probable [solution], this being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For the Latins are they who at present bear rule: I will not, however, make any boast over this [coincidence].3 Teitan too, (ΤΕΙΤΑΝ, the first syllable being written with the two Greek vowels ε and ι, among all the names which are found among us, is rather worthy of credit. For it has in itself the predicted number {300+5+10+300+1+50=666}, and is composed of six letters, each syllable containing three letters; and [the word itself] is ancient, and removed from ordinary use; for among our kings we find none bearing this name Titan, nor have any of the idols which are worshipped in public among the Greeks and barbarians this appellation. Among many persons, too, this name is accounted divine, so that even the sun is termed Titan by those who do now possess [the rule]. This word, too, contains a certain outward appearance of vengeance, and of one inflicting merited punishment because he (Antichrist) pretends that he vindicates the oppressed. And besides this, it is an ancient name, one worthy of credit, of royal dignity, and still further, a name belonging to a tyrant. Inasmuch, then, as this name Titan has so much to recommend it, there is a strong degree of probability, that from among the many [names suggested], we infer, that perchance he who is to come shall be called Titan. We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.

But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But now as he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition, as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

{Irenaeus. “Against Heresies”. Book 5, Chapter 30. Boldface, underlining, and content in curly brackets mine.}

I don’t know about you, but I think it’s becoming obvious why Pulliam generally ignores the patristic evidence regarding eschatology! However, in addition to the two interpretations offered by Pulliam and the one I bring out by cross-referencing this verse with Ezra 2:13, Irenaeus also brought up a fourth interpretation related to the doctrine of chiliasm shortly before the above quote:

He says also: And he will cause a mark [to be put] in the forehead and in the right hand, that no one may be able to buy or sell, unless he who has the mark of the name of the beast or the number of his name; and the number is six hundred and sixty-six, that is, six times a hundred, six times ten, and six units. [He gives this] as a summing up of the whole of that apostasy which has taken place during six thousand years.

For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made; and God rested upon the seventh day from all His works. This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth thousand year.

{Irenaeus. “Against Heresies”. Book 5, Chapter 28, Sections 2-3. Boldface mine. See HIDMF, p. 725-744 for my demonstration that the Bible itself teaches the point made in the latter paragraph.}

Sure, Pulliam discounted the patristic evidence to my face (although he seems willing to accept patristic statements as long as he can find enough loopholes in their claims to force-fit them to his views {e.g., see p. 226-229, where he mutilates Irenaeus’ testimony of what Polycarp had told him about John’s exile on Patmos in order to place the authorship of Revelation in A.D. 71}), but Tim Warner points out the insurmountable problems with claiming something the earliest church fathers were unanimous on was actually a false doctrine {scroll to “HISTORICAL ARGUMENTS” on p. 5}:

We do not claim perfection for the post Apostolic Church, nor any of the early Christian writers. The intent of our historical section is to demonstrate that the second generation Church was solidly posttribulational, and that no hint of pretribulationism can be found in their writings. While this is a secondary argument, and does not carry the weight of the Biblical arguments, it is the natural extension of our premise. Since we are viewing prophecy progressively, always building on previous revelation, it is logical to conclude that students (or disciples) of the Apostles would largely reflect the view handed down to them by Apostolic oral tradition. The second generation Church was the product of the lifetime teaching ministries of Jesus’ Apostles. The early Church not only possessed the written documents of the New Testament, but also a considerable body of oral personal instruction from their mentors, the Apostles. We will demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that the second generation Church held a well developed posttribulationism. The implications of this fact are enormous. If the pretribulation view is correct, then the entire early Church had departed from the truth even before John wrote Revelation! Hence, the Apostles of Jesus were miserable failures in transmitting sound doctrine to the very next generation of Christians, and grounding them in the Word. That means, all the early local churches succumbed simultaneously to the same false view of the rapture virtually overnight, and no record can be found of any kind of resistance or rebuttal of this alleged massive departure from the supposed pretribulationism of the Apostles. All this despite the fact that the early Christian apologists, like Justin, Irenaeus, and Hippolytus, wrote volumes against the contemporary heresies that threatened the Church, appealing to the Scriptures and Apostolic oral tradition. If pretribulationism is true, we are forced to conclude that as soon as the Apostles died (actually while John was still alive), the whole Christian Church abandoned the Apostles’ doctrine and substituted a false eschatology that required them to go through the tribulation. {Boldface mine.}

While this quote is dealing specifically with the unanimous post-Tribulationism of the church fathers (and indeed, everyone else in recorded Christendom up until the mid-18th century; and that first counterexample was a purely hypothetical form of mid-Tribulationism! {scroll to “Morgan Edwards” at the bottom of p. 1}) as an insurmountable hurdle to the notion that pre-Tribulationism (or even mid-Tribulationism) was the Apostolic position, the same points can be made about any doctrine where the earliest church fathers never disagreed with each other. I challenge anyone reading this to present a single patristic passage that shows anyone in the earliest post-Apostolic era (i.e., before Irenaeus wrote “Against Heresies” in A.D. 180, since he obviously didn’t!) taught that the events of Revelation had already been fulfilled by the time of John’s death, let alone by the time Jerusalem was destroyed. Just don’t hold your breath.4

Revelation 17

Finally moving on to Revelation 17:

And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.… And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder [literally, “Why have you wondered”]? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go [or “and is going”, depending on the manuscript] to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world [literally, “life since the casting-down of the world order”], will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. These have one purpose [literally, “one mind”], and they give their power and authority to the beast. These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

(Revelation 17:3,7-14 1995 NASB, boldface added)

To his credit, Pulliam doesn’t ignore this passage like he does quite a few others; he proposes an alternative explanation for the “seven kings” and “the beast which… is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven” in Lesson 22 (“Overview of the Book of Revelation (Part 1)”):

Of great interest in the description of Revelation 17:10-11 is the king who seems to be raised from the dead. How can a king be described as if he “was and is not, is himself also an eighth”? As we look for an explanation, we must remember that who was on the throne only had an effect on the saints in Asia by policies enforced. The best explanation seems to be found in Nero. Nero had severely persecuted Christians. In fact, Nero was the first of the emperors to mount a concerted effort to persecute the people of God. At his death, imperial laws calling for the persecution and death of Christians were abandoned, but were later resurrected in Domitian’s reign. In Domitian, the “fatal wound” would seem to be healed by a revival of persecution. Domitian was the eighth king, but was also one of the seven in the sense that he picked up the persecutions that Nero had previously set in place. It was as if Nero himself had been raised from the dead. Strictly speaking, the “beast” is not the emperor or empire so much as it is the power (dominion) of the empire exerted against Christ’s rule in the hearts of His subjects. So, to summarize: Nero had led the first great persecution against God’s people, and Domitian would lead the second great persecution. Nero’s policy (laws) of cruelty toward God’s people would be resurrected in Domitian. {“In the Days of Those Kings”. 238-239. Boldface and italics in original.}

Aside from the fact that there were 8 other Roman emperors after Domitian who persecuted Christians (so why isn’t Pulliam trying to apply his logic to each of them, in addition to Domition?), there’s one main question we need to focus on here: Where did he get the idea that “Domitian was the eighth king”? He illustrates his reasoning with the following diagram at the bottom of p. 237:

Roman historians would see a glaring historical problem with this diagram that completely undermines Pulliam’s interpretation–and the dates he gives for each emperor betray it. Pay attention to when the reign of one emperor ends and the reign of the next one begins:

  1. Augustus (31 BC-AD 14)
  2. Tiberius (AD 1437)
  3. Caligula (AD 3741)
  4. Claudius (AD 4154)
  5. Nero (AD 5468)
  6. Vespasian (AD 6979)
  7. Titus (AD 7981)
  8. Domitian (AD 81-96)

See how Vespasian’s reign began the year after Nero’s ended, while all the others began reigning in the same year the previous emperor died? That’s not a typo on Pulliam’s part: in A.D. 68-69, a power struggle and civil war broke out due to events leading up to and following Nero’s attempted suicide. You can guess the result from the fact that Roman historians refer to A.D. 69 as “the Year of the Four Emperors”! In light of this historical episode that Pulliam conveniently overlooked, the numbering in his scheme should actually go like this:

  1. Augustus (31 BC-AD 14)
  2. Tiberius (AD 14-37)
  3. Caligula (AD 37-41)
  4. Claudius (AD 41-54)
  5. Nero (AD 54-68)
  6. Galba (June 9, AD 68-January 15, AD 69)
  7. Otho (January 15-April 16, AD 69)
  8. Vitellius (April 16-July 1, AD 69)
  9. Vespasian (AD 69-79)
  10. Titus (AD 79-81)
  11. Domitian (AD 81-96)

Suddenly, the eighth king would be Vitellius, the emperor before Vespasian! Moreover, none of emperors 6-10 persecuted Christians! This historical blunder completely destroys Pulliam’s interpretation of Revelation 17:9-11!

Another historical problem with this interpretation arises in light of a remark in Revelation 1:10a regarding when John experienced the vision recorded in the book: “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day” (KJV, boldface added). While English translations overwhelmingly render the word κυριακῇ as if it’s a possessive form of the noun for “Lord” or “Master”, it’s actually an adjective derived from the noun. The phrase “τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ” literally means “[in] the Chief Day”. This is the only use of this phrase in the entire Bible, and the context doesn’t tell us what it means; so we have no choice but to resort to patristic writings to determine its definition. Most people in our day have assumed that the phrase refers to Sundays in general, but the Longer Version of Ignatius’ Epistle to the Trallians {scroll to Chapter IX} defines this term with reference to the Passover season during which Jesus was crucified: “The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s [literally, “Chief”] Day contains the resurrection.” That is, “the Chief Day” was an archaic Christian name for the first Sunday after Nisan 14 in particular, referred to in Judaism as the day of Firstfruits–the anniversary of Jesus’ resurrection.5 Now, look again at when in the years A.D. 68-69 the alleged king who “is”, Galba (the 6th Roman Emperor), reigned: June 9th to January 15th. There was no Passover or Firstfruits in this date range, so Galba can’t be the king who was reigning when John experienced this vision!

It’s almost as if God let the Year of the Four Emperors happen just to rule out this view of Revelation 17:10-11 that He knew some would propose centuries later!

Moreover, consider this excerpt from my upcoming book:

Speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem, note that Daniel 9:26 didn’t say that “the prince that shall come” (i.e., the Antichrist, per verse 27) would “destroy the city and the sanctuary”, but that “the people of the prince that shall come” would do so. The general in charge of the soldiers that destroyed Jerusalem was Titus, a Roman; many Bible scholars have concluded from this that the Antichrist will be from a nation that used to be part of the Roman empire (which, frankly, doesn’t narrow things down much!). However, Titus gave orders not to destroy the temple, hoping to convert it to a Roman temple; but his army disobeyed him. Thus, Titus only destroyed “the city”; his army destroyed “the city and the sanctuary” (Gabriel did say “the end thereof shall be with a flood [army]”)! The soldiers in Titus’ army were Syrians, Arabs, and Turks; not native Romans. Hence, the Antichrist will actually be someone from the Seleucid (Syrian) branch of the former Alexandrian empire (which narrows it down to what are now Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, and parts of Armenia, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan).

{HIDMF p. 672. Boldface and italics in original. Underlining added.}

This point alone rules out Pulliam’s explanation for the “seven kings” and “the beast which… is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven”, since Pulliam’s eighth king, Domitian, was a native Roman (as was Vitellius!).

What’s my explanation for the “seven kings” where “five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while”? Well, compare the description of the beast of Revelation 17:3 (which represents the Antichrist, per verse 11) with the dragon of Revelation 12:3 (which represents Satan, per verse 9):

Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.…
And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.
(Revelation 12:3, 17:3 1995 NASB)

We know from Revelation 17:18c that the woman of that chapter is the city of Rome, “the great city that is having reign over the kings of the land” (YLT, boldface added); that is, the city that was doing so at the point in history when John experienced this vision. Since the sixth kingdom of the seven is definitely the Roman empire under Domitian (despite Pulliam’s twisting of Irenaeus’ words, Domitian was emperor when John wrote Revelation), the second Roman emperor to persecute Christians, this implies that Satan was “carrying” Rome for his own purposes–and by implication, the same goes for the “five [that had] fallen, [and] the other [that] has not yet come.” So who are the other six? I’m partial to the following listing of 6 other kingdoms throughout history whose rulers Satan has exploited to the fullest extent possible in concerted efforts to thwart God’s purposes:

  1. The Serpent leading Adam & Eve into sin, thereby tricking them out of their dominion, and subsequently corrupting the budding human race through Cain and the civilization he and his family started {scroll to “4:14 every one.”, “4:17 city.”, & “4:20 bare Jabal.”}. (Extrabiblical Jewish tradition preserved by Josephus said that Seth’s descendants isolated themselves from the rest of the Antediluvian civilization, so as not to be corrupted by them; the corruption that eventually did happen was the incident involving “the sons of God” marrying “the daughters of men” referred to in Genesis 6:2,4. See this article for more details.)
  2. Nimrod and his kingdom after the Flood, which led to the early post-Flood human population refusing to “fill the earth” and engaging in astrological worship, culminating in the Tower of Babel incident.
  3. Egypt and its Pharaohs who enslaved the Israelites after Joseph’s death, ordered all newborn Israelite males killed, and tried to stop the Israelites from leaving. (Ashton & Down identified the former two as being done by the 12th-dynasty Pharaohs Sesostris III & Amenemhet III, respectively, and the last one as being done by the 13th-dynasty Pharaoh Neferhotep I. While Ashton & Down’s chronology seems to still have a few problems, I’m unaware of any other trio of Pharaohs who match the Biblical data anywhere near as well; if you know of any better alternatives, feel free to let me know!)
  4. Tyre and its kings from the reign of Ephraim’s king Ahab (whose infamous wife, Jezebel, was a Tsidonian princess, per 1 Kings 16:31) {scroll to “The Religion of Tyre”, bearing in mind that Tyre was a chief city of the Tsidonians/Phoenicians} to its fall to Nebuchadnezzar in Ezekiel’s day (Ezekiel 28:12-19 indicates that at least Tyre’s last king before this fall was possessed by Satan himself; see also Joel 3:4-6 for a recounting of some of the ways Tyre had oppressed Ephraim and Judah by Joel’s day).
  5. Antiochus Epiphanes and his aggressive attempts to get Israelites to abandon the Mosaic Covenant under penalty of death.
  6. The one king who was still to come in John’s day was none other than Adolf Hitler, who persuaded German society into persecuting Jews and tried to exterminate them (and planned to exterminate Christians down the road) and built the Nazi party and its regime on the satanic ideas of Karl Marx {scroll to “Marx And Satan” & “Also, CRT Is Literally Nazism Repackaged”}. And of course, compared to most nations throughout history, Nazi Germany only lasted “a little while” (1933-1945).

“The Assyrian” of Isaiah 14

Also in line with the Antichrist being from a part of the former Seleucid kingdom is a standalone prophecy from Isaiah. I call it “standalone” because in the Masoretic Text, the Hebrew letter פ appears at the end of verse 23 and then again at the end of verse 27, indicating that the sentences in between constitute a complete major train of thought on their own.

The LORD of hosts has sworn saying [or “to say”], “Surely, just as I have intended [literally, “Undoubtedly, as that which I imagined”] so it has happened [literally, “it was”], and just as I have planned so [literally, “and as that which I counseled,”] it will stand, to break Assyria [better, “the Assyrian”] in My land, and I will trample him on My mountains. Then [waw-consecutive perfect-tense] his yoke will be removed from them [literally, “from upon them (plural)”] and his burden [i.e., tyranny {scroll to “Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon”}] removed from [literally, “from upon”] their [singular] shoulder. This is the plan devised [literally, “the plan, the one that was counseled”; passive participle of the verb for “counseled” in verse 24] against the whole earth [literally, “counseled upon all the earth”]; and this is the hand that is stretched out [literally, “the hand, the one stretched out”] against [or “upon”, or “over”] all the nations. For [or “Because”] the LORD of hosts has planned [or “has counseled”], and who can frustrate it? [literally, “who will frustrate”?] And as for His stretched-out hand, who can turn it back [literally, “And His hand is the outstretched one, and who will cause it to go back”]?” (Isaiah 14:24-27 1995 NASB, boldface and underlining added)

Note that “the Assyrian” is consistently linked with masculine singular terms here, indicating an individual, not a nation or even an army of Assyrians. Also, God not only indicates that “the Assyrian” will be in His land and on His mountains when He brings him to his end (which Isaiah 37:6-7,36-38 reveals to not be true of Sennacherib, the Assyrian king who threatened Judah in Isaiah’s time), but also says His plan for “the Assyrian” is intended for “all the earth” and “all the nations”. This implies that “the Assyrian” referred to here would have control over (indeed, would place yokes and tyrannical burdens on) every nation on earth (which may explain why the people under the yoke are referred to in the plural, but the people under the burden are referred to in the singular; multiple nations, but a single government); who can this be other than the Antichrist? (Granted, Nimrod’s kingdom at Babel was technically ruling over everyone in the world as well, but that was before people started spreading over the earth after the Flood and roughly a millennium-and-a-half before this prophecy referred to a then-future ruler from Assyria.) By calling the Antichrist “the Assyrian”, this passage tells us that the Antichrist would be someone from a nation that used to be part of the Assyrian empire. Of course, the maps below show that the Seleucid Empire included most of the former Assyrian Empire (but note that Israel — its northern kingdom, at least — is on the Assyrian map but not the Seleucid map; the Seleucid map is showing the extent of the empire as of 200 B.C., when Israel belonged to the Ptolemaic Empire)! Hence, an “Assyrian” would almost certainly have qualified as a “Seleucid” centuries later!

Assyrian Empire at its peak. Image Credit: “Neo Assyrian Empire (911-609 B.C.)” Copyright 2017 Sharklord1. Image housed at <https://www.deviantart.com/sharklord1/art/Neo-Assyrian-Empire-911-609-B-C-699419635>. License notice available at <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/>.
Seleucid Empire before expansion into Anatolia and Greece. Image Credit: “The Seleucid Empire in 200 BC.” Copyright 2008 Thomas A. Lessman. Image housed at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_Empire#/media/File:Seleucid-Empire_200bc.jpg>. License notice available at <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/>.

Bringing It All Together

In conclusion, there’s a simple explanation for why

  1. the phrase “little horn” is used only twice in all of Scripture, for the Antichrist in Daniel 7:8 and for Antiochus Epiphanes in Daniel 8:9;
  2. the Antichrist is portrayed as waging war against the saints, overpowering them, blaspheming God incessantly, and trying to change times and laws–just like Antiochus did in 168-165 B.C.;
  3. the 2,300 days of Daniel 8:14 are split between Antiochus Epiphanes and the Antichrist;
  4. Daniel 8:13,17,19 includes the trampling of the temple underfoot by Antiochus Epiphanes as pertaining to “the time of the end”, despite the Hebrew text of Daniel 9:25-27 indicating a time gap between the 69th and 70th Sevens that must be an exact multiple of 50 years, and despite Daniel 11 having other events occurring between what Antiochus did to the temple in 168-165 B.C. and “the time of the end” (verses 30-32 speak of the former, but “the time of the end” doesn’t start until verse 40);
  5. Daniel 8:25c could say Antiochus Epiphanes “will even oppose [literally, “stand against”] the Prince of princes, But… will be broken without human agency [literally, “without hand”] (1995 NASB) after the 2,300 evenings and mornings (verse 26), despite the fact that he died after less than half of those evenings and mornings had passed;
  6. the prophecy in Daniel 9:26 about “the people of the prince that shall come” was fulfilled by Syrian soldiers;
  7. the Abomination of Desolation was prophesied as being committed by Antiochus Epiphanes (Daniel 11:31) and the Antichrist (Daniel 9:27, 12:11), yet talked about by Jesus nearly 200 years after Antiochus’ time as still future (Matthew 24:15);
  8. the Antichrist would want “the precious things of Egypt” (Daniel 11:43b 1995 NASB) — including artifacts from the Ptolemaic Kingdom that Antiochus Epiphanes wanted to take over — more than 2,000 years after Egypt’s glory had all but faded away;
  9. the Antichrist is called “the Assyrian” in Isaiah 14:25;
  10. both Antiochus Epiphanes and the Antichrist are talked about as portraying themselves as God (compare the meaning of Epiphanes, “God manifest” with 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4); and
  11. the Antichrist is talked about several times in Revelation as someone who will be back from the dead.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the Antichrist are the same person–the former will be resuscitated to become the latter! And he’ll pick up his plans where he left off in 164 B.C.

Ironically, this means that even if we take the phrase “in the days of those kings” as covering all the kings from all the kingdoms in the vision of Daniel 2, from the Babylonian to the Roman Periods, while ignoring the possibility of a future 10-king confederation, Jesus’ return will still happen “in the days of [one of] those kings”: Antiochus Epiphanes.

Another cross-reference worth warning you about is between Daniel 8:23, 11:21,23-27,32 and Revelation 17:12-13,17. If ten kings are ruling the world in the latter passage, none of whom can apparently get a leg up on each other, how on earth will the Antichrist be able to convince all ten of them to give him their kingdom within only 39 days of his resurrection {see HIDMF p. 757-758 for my justification of the “39 days” figure}?! Well, the prophecies about Antiochus Epiphanes in Daniel 11 warned Israelites that smooth talking people into doing what he wants would be his modus operandi (see also Daniel 8:23c). And while he won’t have a glorified body, it’s safe to assume his brain will have the mental capabilities it had before he died in 164 B.C.–which, compared to people today, would be at (if not beyond) the supergenius level! This could also explain how he assimilates into the modern world quickly and skillfully enough to acquire and maintain his control. People living in the 2nd century B.C. were all “on his level” physically and intellectually, so they were able to impose some limits on how much he could get away with (consider how capitalism has historically limited any one person’s wealth by having their greed be kept in check by everyone else’s greed); people living today (with 22 additional centuries’ worth of degradation due to mutations) wouldn’t stand a chance (sure adds a new shade of meaning to Revelation 13:4c, doesn’t it?). Antiochus IV could already run rings around most (though not quite all, per the fulfillments of Daniel 11:27,30) other political figures living 2,200 years ago; once he sees what modern politicians do, I bet he’ll think: “Amateurs.”

All of this adds a layer of meaning to something John Gregory Drummond wrote just a few months ago:

By these actions, Antiochus Epiphanes effectively stepped into the role of the “Little Horn” of Daniel’s visions and became the Apocalyptic Supervillain Archtype that remains within the psyche of the Christian belief system to this day. One could argue that, if Antiochus hadn’t existed, neither would the popular conception of the Antichrist prevalent in certain circles of eschatology.

Apparently, only Antiochus IV himself is even capable of filling those shoes.

But, if you’ll permit me to reinforce that “Mostly” in this post’s title one last time, I can’t be dogmatic that when he does show up (I tentatively predict that he’ll kill the Two Witnesses sometime during Jerusalem’s daylight hours on Tuesday, March 22nd, 2033 {HIDMF p. 757}), he’ll go by the name “Mithradatas”. Even if that hunch of mine ends up being right, I probably won’t get to see any congratulatory emails, since it’s doubtful that I’ll be able to check any electronics from the place of safety (although I could be mistaken about that, depending on where/what the “place of safety” actually ends up being). And honestly, I hope any regular readers of mine will be heading for their place(s) of safety by then, instead of wasting precious time typing an email, comment, or what have you!

P.S.: Practical Advice

In the meantime, you’re probably wondering what you should do in light of this information. A friend of mine has complained that he got nightmares from reading one of my posts, and that he doesn’t want to read about apocalyptic topics if the discussions will always scare him. So I’ve decided I should make up for all the doom and gloom I’ve exegeted as starting by the end of this decade by giving you some practical tips on what you can do to prepare yourself to endure it. And don’t worry, I’m not encouraging you to become a “prepper” (of course, if you personally feel that God’s called you to an increased level of emergency preparedness, I pass no judgment on you; God knows your situation infinitely better than I do, so I’ll let Him do the judging).

Those of us who’ve heard the Gospel, believed it, repented of our sins, confessed Jesus as Lord/Master, & been “submerged… on the basis of the name of Jesus Anointed” (how the Greek phrase in Acts 2:38 literally reads) should remain steadfast by spiritually-preparing ourselves to rely on God through everything that comes our way (trust me, plenty of crazy things will happen before the Apocalypse even starts to give us opportunities to practice that!) {For those who aren’t sure whether they’ve followed the Plan of Salvation properly or not, I go into more detail on that in HIDMF, p. 58-73.} Until the Antichrist shows up, we’re still in the period of time where we can gather oil for our lamps (Matthew 25:1-13; note that verses 6-10 say the 10 virgins started trimming their lamps in response to a cry made at midnight — representing the middle of the Apocalypse — and didn’t have time from that point to buy more oil); so we might as well minimize how much God will have to chasten us (individually) during the Apocalypse by getting a head start on fleeing/overcoming our problem sins (Hebrews 12:5-17), allowing the Holy Spirit to work in us (Romans 12:1-2), and striving to obey the Law of Christ (Matthew 5:3-7:27 — the Sermon on the Mount — is a great place to start!) as faithfully as we can. (A down-to-earth explanation on how to do these is available here.) Oh, and don’t forget to read passages like Isaiah 65-66, Ezekiel 40-48, & Revelation 21-22, to familiarize yourself with what God has promised for His people: God described our inheritance in such great detail because He knows it’s easier for us humans to press on through our struggles when we have something concrete and tangible to strive toward (Hebrews 6:17-19)!6


  1. Could this also be true of the false prophet? Will it be some prominent ancient magician come back to life (per the mentions in Revelation 13:13-15 & 19:20 of him performing miracles to deceive the Antichrist’s followers)? I see nothing in the text of Revelation to rule out that possibility. But I must also admit that I haven’t put much thought into who it could be, if so. Until I conduct additional research into this, my guess would be Jannes or Jambres (2 Timothy 3:8), whom Jewish tradition names as the foremost magicians who opposed Moses & Aaron in Exodus 7:11-12, 22 & 8:7, and were eventually unable to do so in 8:18. ↩︎
  2. The same holds true for alleged parallels between Christian and Pagan rituals and practices. As Greg Boyd put it to Lee Strobel:
    “As for the suggestion that the New Testament doctrines of baptism or communion come from mystery religions, that’s just nonsense. For one thing, the evidence for these supposed parallels comes after the second century, so any borrowing would have come from Christianity, not the other way around.
    “And when you look carefully, the similarities vanish. For instance, to get to a higher level in the Mithra cult, followers had to stand under a bull while it was slain, so they could be bathed in its blood and guts. Then they’d join the others in eating the bull.
    “Now, to suggest that Jews would find anything attractive about this and want to model baptism and communion after this barbaric practice is extremely implausible, which is why most scholars don’t go for it.”
    {Quoted in “The Case for Christ”. Strobel, Lee. 1998. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan. 162. Paragraph divisions by Strobel.} ↩︎
  3. Note that this phrase negates the idea that the prior sentence shows Irenaeus taught that the fourth kingdom of Daniel 2 & Daniel 7 were both the Roman empire. Furthermore, bear in mind that Irenaeus also taught the doctrine of Chiliasm (as we’ll see in the quote of Irenaeus immediately after this one), which necessitates Jesus’ second coming in the 6000th year after Adam’s first sin. Since most early Christians could read Greek, but not Hebrew, they tended to follow the numbers in the LXX of Genesis 5 & 11 when determining how many years had passed since Adam–and the calculations with those numbers would’ve placed the 6000th year in the early 6th century A.D., only about 350 years after Irenaeus wrote this. This was why so many church fathers talked as if they were living relatively close to that time–and why it was believable to them that the Roman empire might survive until that time. We know now that the numbers in the Masoretic Text must be the correct ones (the Samaritan Pentateuch also has different numbers, but those ones would’ve placed Jesus’ return in the 18th century A.D.!), since the 6000th year by that chronology would still be in the future from this writing (A.D. 2036/7, to be exact!). {HIDMF p. 755-760} ↩︎
  4. The remark of Justin Martyr “that I and many others are of this opinion, and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise. … But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.” {“Dialogue with Trypho”. Chapter 80.} doesn’t count as a counterexample to my claim, because Justin doesn’t explicitly say that those who “think otherwise” believed that the prophecies had already been fulfilled. As far as the evidence goes, all they “thought otherwise” about was the degree to which the future fulfillments of these prophecies would occur literally (as Justin obviously believed) versus allegorically (a view that no church father promoted until Clement of Alexandria circa A.D. 200; it was molded over the next couple centuries or so by Origen of Alexandria & Augustine of Hippo into full-fledged amillennialism). ↩︎
  5. It’s significant that this statement comes from the Longer Version of Ignatius’ epistles, because the Shorter Version was Ignatius’ original. Depending on the passage, the edits in the Longer Version were intended to either expand upon what Ignatius was saying, or give seeming early testimony to ideas that were introduced to Christianity over the early centuries following Ignatius’ death. If this edit was in the latter category, you’d think they’d clarify “τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ” as meaning “Sundays in general”, since Sunday worship was being pushed by the Catholic authorities around the time the edits were made (4th-5th century A.D.)–Constantine officially made Sunday the Day of Rest throughout the Roman Empire in A.D. 321, yet Socrates Scholasticus indicated in Book V of his Church History that most of the early Christians worshipped on Saturday when he wrote the following in the 430s, while discussing the period of A.D. 379-395: “Nor is there less variation in regard to religious assemblies. For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath [i.e., Saturday] of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this [note the phrasing “have ceased to do this”, implying that even the congregations at Alexandria and Rome had done so previously; this takes the wind out of arguments that use the end of Chapter 15 of the Epistle of Barnabas and Chapter 67 of Justin Martyr’s First Apology as evidence that the Apostles changed regular worship to occurring on Sundays–these documents were written from Alexandria and Rome, respectively, and thus didn’t represent early churches in general on this issue!]. The Egyptians in the neighborhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of Thebaïs, hold their religious assemblies on the sabbath, but do not participate of the mysteries in the manner usual among Christians in general: for after having eaten and satisfied themselves with food of all kinds, in the evening [i.e., once Sunday has begun by Jewish reckoning] making their offerings they partake of the mysteries.” {Boldface and content in brackets mine. Scroll to the third paragraph of Chapter 22.} Hence, it’s more likely that the editor of Chapter 9 of Ignatius’ Epistle to the Trallians was clarifying what the phrase originally meant, in contrast to what it had come to mean by their time. ↩︎
  6. This is another problem with the “heavenly destiny” concept. About the most-detailed description the Bible gives us of anything in Heaven is restricted to the Heavenly Court (Revelation 4-5 and the OT passages these chapters take their imagery from). This means a heavenly hope can only be as glorious as whatever someone can imagine–which would paint quite a flimsy and fuzzy picture compared to the tangible details that God explicitly told us! Sure, the real deal will still be undoubtedly better than the picture you can paint in your head with the details God’s given us; but at least it helps you paint a more accurate, higher-quality picture compared to relying solely on your own imagination! ↩︎

In the Days of … WHICH Kings? Part 1: Points Pulliam Glossed Over

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Part 8 of this series

Introduction

I think it’s a good time to address the main Title of Pulliam’s book: “In the Days of Those Kings” (also the title of Lesson 17 therein). The title is a reference to Daniel 2:44 – “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.” (1995 NASB) Pulliam must think this passage is a smoking gun for his view (which seems to be partial preterism, mixed with some ideas from other variants of amillennialism), because the book’s cover photo shows a bust of the Roman emperor Tiberius, and he thanks the one responsible for the image (I won’t drag his name into this) for the “gift of one of ‘those kings.’” {“In the Days of Those Kings: A 24 Lesson Adult Bible Class Study on the Error of Dispensationalism”. Pulliam, Bob. 2015. Houston, TX: Book Pillar Publishing. 4. Italics and boldface mine.} Having dealt with Lesson 16 (on Daniel 9) of his book here, I’d like to deal with Lessons 17 (“In the Days of Those Kings”, on Daniel 2 & 7) and 18 (“The Latter Prophecies in Daniel”, on Daniel 8-12) in this 2-part post (although I’ll actually save the bulk of his discussions on Daniel 12 for yet another post, since it fits better with that one).

That may sound like way too much ground to cover in only two posts, but Pulliam’s substantial discussions about these passages are suspiciously brief. Here are all the verses from Daniel he cites from these chapters between both lessons:

  • 2:27f, 36-45;
  • 7:11f, 12, 13-14, 26;
  • 8:5, 8, 13-14, 15, 17, 19, 20f, 25;
  • 10:13, 14, 20;
  • 11:2, 4ff, 7-8, 11-12, 31, 33, 35, 36, 40;
  • 12:1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 10, 11-12, 13.

Now here are the verses from Daniel he actually quotes any portion of:

  • 2:44;
  • 7:11-12, 26;
  • 8:17, 19;
  • 10:14;
  • 11:40;
  • 12:1, 2, 9, 11, 13.

I guess he just thinks the average reader will take it for granted that the entire passage supports his interpretation. Of course, I’m far from an average reader.

So sorry this post is so long (as is Part 2; in fact, each Part wound up being over 11,000 words!). If anything, Pulliam’s brevity is arguably one of the reasons I have so much to cover here. If I may offer a censored paraphrase of Brandolini’s Law: the amount of effort it takes to refute false claims is an order of magnitude greater than the amount of effort it took to make them in the first place.

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses

Let’s kick off this post with the namesake of his book:

Daniel 2 foretells the future kingdom of the Messiah through a dream. Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, dreamed of a great image, and Daniel alone could interpret it. That interpretation is found in Daniel 2:36-45.
Daniel explained the meaning of the image according to the wisdom given him by God (Dan 2:27f). Each part of the image represented a kingdom, with the first part representing the kingdom of Babylon (Dan 2:37-40). The three kingdoms after Babylonia are not named in the prophecy, but we can look back in history to know their identity. After the Babylonian Empire came the Medo-Persian Empire, then arose the Macedonian (or Grecian), and then the Roman (see chart at right).
During his description of the fourth kingdom, Daniel said, “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people …” (Dan 2:44). In other words, during the days of the Roman kings, the Messiah would come and set up His kingdom.

{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 179. Italics in original.}

Wow, Pulliam already glossed over A LOT of details in this passage to type that last paragraph! But, get this, he tries to justify doing so:

Visions given by God can present a vivid message of future events, but we must be careful that we not see more in them than God intended.
Dispensationalists seek out little details in visions, hoping they will prove their doctrine. Walvoord does this in claiming that the destruction of the Roman Empire had to be a violent event. His proof is in the rock striking the base of the image and crushing the kingdoms. Since that looks like a single violent event, he claims that it cannot possibly be a spiritual kingdom that currently spreads in the hearts of men by the rule of Christ’s law [as Pulliam believes].
The problem here is in seeing more in the vision than intended. In the vision, all of the kingdoms are seen together while the head is ruling. The head of gold did not appear first, and then the other kingdoms come one by one. In fulfillment, the four kingdoms would not be existing at the same time [actually, they did and still do, as I’ll explain later]. We are not intended to make anything out of the rule of four kingdoms where they are represented as one object. If we were, then Babylon’s power (the head) would have still been around at the establishment of the Messiah’s kingdom. LaHaye and Ice present the legs of the great statue as the Eastern and Western branches of Catholicism. Catholicism was not, and is not the Roman Empire [true enough, but Catholicism is the widow of the Roman Empire (Revelation 18:7), since the church at Rome wedded itself to Imperial Rome in A.D. 325, and has persisted even after Western Rome’s fall in A.D. 476 and Eastern Rome’s fall in A.D. 1453]. Daniel tells us that the legs would be the fourth kingdom (Rome). Hitchcock, like most others, divides the Roman Empire into two phases with the feet being a separate period of time from the legs. If that is true, we should see the attachment of feet to legs as a clear prophecy of the Roman Empire still existing, not of its existence being in a separate time [again, the Romans still have living descendants, and Rome is still a capital city (of Italy); but also, the connection of the feet to the lower legs need not mean the kingdoms will be consecutive, as I’ll show below]. These Dispensational interpretations are good examples of speculation, which is required to make any argument in favor of Dispensationalism.
In Daniel 7, the same four kingdoms are seen as four beasts, where one quickly follows another. [Woah, hold up! The text of Daniel 7 never says each beast quickly followed the other! Who’s the one “seeing more in the vision than intended” here?!] The fourth kingdom falls, but the kingdom of the Lord endures. You are not asked to figure out how He will make that happen. You are simply seeing the fact that He will make that happen, and that is exactly what has been presented in the fall of the image at the time of the fourth kingdom (Rome).
Walvoord interprets the ten horns on the fourth beast as reigning at the same time, because they are seen at the same time. He didn’t interpret the four kingdoms of the image in Daniel 2 as existing at the same time. [You’ll see below and early on in Part 2 that my interpretation of these chapters doesn’t have this problem.] For some reason, he gets to change the rules to fit his doctrine. When we begin to speculate on the significance of every little detail in these visions, our interpretation becomes very subjective.

{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 181-182. Italics and boldface in original. Contents in brackets mine.}

That last sentence can be true, but Pulliam seems to be forgetting a good criterion for avoiding that subjectivity: internal self-consistency among one’s interpretations of all passages! (Of course, all the contradictions in his positions that I point out throughout this series make it easy to believe that he honestly has forgotten about this criterion!)

Yet, this cop-out manages to get even more pathetic when you skip ahead to Lesson 22 and read his treatment of the ten kings represented by the ten horns of the beast in Revelation 17 (which is obviously drawing on the fourth beast of Daniel 7 for its imagery):

The ten kings have had many explanations through the years. Each explanation has difficulties associated with it. Since their identity is not important to understanding the overall meaning of the vision [um, how not?!], let’s simply understand them as further alliances against God and His people. Remember, it’s only necessary that the original readers be able to identify every detail in Revelation. The book of Revelation was not written directly to us, but it is preserved for our benefit.

{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 239. Italics and boldface in original. Content in brackets mine.}

As far as I’m concerned, these are nothing short of excuses to be lazy when studying God’s word, and to avoid dealing with passages contrary to the position one holds (which can set the Bible student on the right track in the process). Isaiah 55:11 makes it clear that every word God included in the Bible is there for a purpose; that includes “every little detail in these visions”. If you’re willing to ignore words, phrases, or sentences within a passage, you can interpret it however you want; the same goes for ignoring some passages (or portions thereof) to interpret other passages however you want. That’s far more dangerous than speculation, any day!

I suspect another reason Pulliam is making excuses to pick-and-choose the details he’ll pay attention to in prophecies is because if he didn’t, the sheer level of detail in many Old Testament prophecies would practically require him to interpret them in a straightforward manner (which his position is blatantly built on not doing). After all, if these prophecies were meant to metaphorically portray something, there’s absolutely no reason for God to get as long-winded as He does in them. Ezekiel 40-48 is easily the best example to illustrate this. I really like the way Paul Henebury said it after giving a list of reasons why that passage should be interpreted as a vision of a future, literal temple on physical land (among the many other details implied by taking the passage at face value): “If someone doesn’t believe these evidences and instead wants to interpret a portion of the Bible that is longer than First Corinthians as a “word-picture” or “type”, then let them explain their interpretation from the text.” (Boldface added)

Indeed, even in passages that are meant allegorically, the details are still important. For example, while I’ve seen many teachers (especially within the Church of Christ) teach that the story of the Rich Man & Lazarus gives us important details of what the afterlife is like (even building their understandings of the human soul on it), the passage is actually an allegory about Jesus & the second destruction of Jerusalem and its apostate priesthood. For example, have you ever wondered why a parable (which you’d expect to be a bare-bones story with necessary details only) includes the oddly specific detail that the Rich Man had 5 brothers? It’s because the priestly tribe, Levi, was descended from one of the 6 sons of Jacob through Leah, the other 5 being Reuben, Simeon, Judah, Issachar, & Zebulun (see Genesis 29:32-35, 30:17-20). The outline I just linked to documents similar Biblical cross-references for every last detail in the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus. So, I’ll entertain the idea that Ezekiel 40-48 was meant allegorically once someone presents a similar outline for every last detail in all 9 of those chapters. Nobody who claims that section of Scripture is allegorical can pretend to have a legitimate case for it unless and until they can present such an outline.

When God goes into great detail, it’s because those details are important to understand — if not by the original audience (see my first paragraph after quoting the Daniel 2 passage below), then by the future readers living when the information has been “unsealed” (e.g., Daniel 8:26, 12:4).

The Dream of Daniel 2

So, let’s consider the entire dream of Daniel 2, along with Daniel’s interpretation of it. You may feel overwhelmed by all the remarks I’m adding to this passage in brackets, but please bear with me (after all, I spent 2 nights of my life lining up the phrasing with the original Aramaic as precisely as possible!).

31 “You, O king, were looking and behold, there was a single great statue [literally, “and behold! A single great image/figure”; the Aramaic word properly refers to an idolatrous figure]; that statue [figure], which was large and of extraordinary splendor [literally, “that figure, large and its splendor surpassing”], was standing in front of you, and its appearance was awesome [literally, “was terrifying”].
32 The head of that statue [figure] was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze,
33 its [lower] legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.
34 You continued [literally, “You were”] looking until a stone was cut out without hands [literally, “until that stone cut itself out, and that not with hands”; the Aramaic word for “that” here, while not translated in the 1995 NASB rendering, was often used (particularly after verbs involving seeing, as is the case here) to introduce the subject of a sentence {Scroll to entry 3 under “Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon”}–see my remark on verse 45 for why I translated the Hithpeel-form verb for “cut out” reflexively instead of passively], and it struck the statue [figure] on its feet of iron and clay [literally, “its feet of the iron and the clay”; “iron” & “clay” both have definite articles attached to them] and crushed [literally, “and it shattered”; the verb is in the Haphel form, indicating it’s causative in force and active in voice] them.
35 Then [properly, “At the same time” or “Immediately” {Scroll to “Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon”, specifically the line for בֵּאדַיִן}] the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed [literally, “were shattered”–the same verb as in verse 34, but in the Peal form (corresponding to the Qal form in Hebrew, which expresses the “simple” active form of the action); this implies that the shattering action in verse 34 is more direct than the shattering action in verse 35] all at the same time [literally, “shattered as one”] and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found [literally, “the wind carried them, and no place at all was found for them”]. But the stone that struck the statue [figure] became a great mountain and filled the whole earth [or, “and it filled all the land”].

36 “This was the dream; now we will tell its interpretation [literally, “dream, and its interpretation we will tell”] before the king.
37 You, O king, are the king of kings [literally, “You, the king, are king of the kings], to whom the [better, “kings, that”; same Aramaic word for “that” I discussed back in verse 34] God of heaven has given [literally, “has given to you”] the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory [or “honor”];
38 and wherever the sons of men dwell, or the beasts of the field, or the birds of the sky, He has given them into your hand and has caused you to rule over [literally, “in” or “among”; the preposition is בְּ, not עַל] them all. You are [or “are indeed”; this Aramaic pronoun can be used to return to a subject while emphasizing it] the head of gold [literally, “of the gold”; “gold” has a definite article attached to it].
39 After [literally, “And after”] you there will arise another kingdom inferior to you [literally, “another kingdom of earth more than you”], then [literally, “and”] another third kingdom of [better, “kingdom, that of”; same word from verses 34 & 37] bronze [literally, “of the bronze”; definite article attached to “bronze”], which will rule over [literally, “in” or “among”; בְּ, not עַל] all the earth [or “the land”].
40 Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron [literally, “And a fourth kingdom there will be, strong as the iron”; definite article on “iron”]; inasmuch as [properly, “iron; on this very account because” {Scroll to “Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon” & read the note on the phrase כָּל־קְבֵל דִּי}] iron crushes and shatters all things [literally, “the iron is shattering and crushing (or “subduing”) the whole”], so, like iron [literally, “and so, like the iron”; definite article on “iron”] that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces.
41 In that you saw the feet and toes [literally, “And that you saw, the feet and the toes”; definite articles on “feet” & “toes”], partly of potter’s clay [literally, “partly clay, that of a potter,”] and partly of iron, it will be [or “become”] a divided [Aramaic פְּלַג (H6386), corresponding to the Hebrew פָּלַג (H6385), which Genesis 10:25 explicitly gives as the root of the name Peleg (פֶּלֶג, H6389)] kingdom; but it will have in it the toughness of iron [literally, “and part of the toughness, that of the iron, it will have in it], inasmuch as [same Aramaic phrase as in verse 40] you saw the iron mixed with common clay [literally, “with clay of the mud”].
42 As the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of pottery [literally, “And toes of the feet, partly iron and partly clay], so some of the kingdom [literally, “clay, part of the kingdom’s end] will be strong and part of it will be brittle [literally, “broken”].
43 And in that you saw [literally, “That you saw,] the iron mixed with common clay [literally, “with clay of the mud”], they will combine with one another [literally, “joined, they will be,”; with the passive participle for “joined” being in the Hithpaal form, indicating a mixing that’s more intensive, yet done to themselves or by others] in [or “with”] the seed of men [literally, “with seed of the mortal human”; the word rendered “men” in the 1995 NASB is אֵנֶשׁ (H606), the Aramaic equivalent of the Hebrew word אֱנוֹשׁ (H582), the root of the name “Enosh”, which properly means “mortal man” and connotes man/humanity in a less dignified sense–the normal Hebrew word for “human/ity” is אָדָם (H120), the root of the name “Adam”]; but they will not adhere to one another [literally, “will not cling, this with that], even as iron [literally, “as the iron”; definite article on “iron”] does not combine with pottery [literally, “iron joins not itself with the clay”; “joins” is in the Hithpaal form again, but the participle is active, so the action must be reflexive here; again, “clay” has a definite article attached to it].
44 In the days of those kings [literally, “And in their days, those of those kings] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed [literally, “which is for remote times (or, “for perpetuity”), and never will be destroyed”], and that kingdom [literally, “and the kingdom”] will not be left for another people; it will crush [literally, “will break into pieces”] and put an end to all these kingdoms [literally, “all these, the kingdoms”], but it will itself endure forever [literally, “kingdoms, and it will stand for the ages”].
45 Inasmuch as [same Aramaic phrase as in verses 40 & 41] you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands [literally, “saw that from the mountain, a stone cut itself out, and that not with hands,”; the verb for “cut out” is in the Ithpeel form, which denotes an intensive and reflexive action] and that it crushed [literally, “and it broke into pieces”] the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future [literally, “king that which will take place after this”]; so the dream is true [or “reliable”] and its interpretation is trustworthy.” (Daniel 2:31-45 1995 NASB, boldface and underlining added)

First, since Nebuchadnezzar was a pagan king, and thus not necessarily interested in the end times, and Daniel only gave him the interpretation this once before Nebuchadnezzar promoted him (as indicated by the fact that verse 46 begins with the word בֵּאדַיִן, which means “Immediately”, as noted in my first remark in verse 35) — meaning, for instance, that any terms that can be better understood at one place in the passage wouldn’t have automatically had their meanings transferred to another place in Nebuchadnezzar’s head — it’s safe to conclude that Nebuchadnezzar himself was only meant to understand the interpretation in a general sense; not necessarily every little detail. So, for instance, he would’ve cared about the kingdoms after him and how powerful and extensive they were, but not necessarily any implications of what he was being told for end-times prophecy. Hence, there are almost certainly some ambiguous words or phrases in this prophecy (one example of which I’ll discuss in the next paragraph) that weren’t meant to be fully understood at the time–but rather, were meant to be understood later, in light of additional divine revelation.

Second, note that Pulliam and I have pretty much the same understanding of Daniel’s explanation until verse 41. Pulliam interprets the feet and toes as being the same kingdom as the lower legs (despite the fact that the prophecy is obviously distinguishing them from each other by saying their makeup is different), clearly interpreting “a fourth kingdom” (verse 40) and “a divided kingdom” (verse 41) as referring to one and the same kingdom. However, if that meaning was intended, why didn’t Daniel make that more explicit to Nebuchadnezzar by telling him “the kingdom will be divided”, attaching a definite article to “kingdom” (to unequivocally link it to the previous instance of “kingdom” in verse 40) and using “divided” with the Hithpeel stem (to indicate passive action) and Imperfect tense (to indicate future completion), rather than making it a Peil Passive Participle (as it is in the Masoretic Text; functioning as an adjective with no time component, rather than an action verb with a timing component) followed by a verb that could mean “it will be” or “it will become”–the latter of which necessitates prior existence in a non-divided form, but the former of which doesn’t? It seems that Daniel was divinely inspired to use the more ambiguous phrasing “a kingdom divided it will be(come)” to give Nebuchadnezzar adequate information to understand what he needed to, while leaving more than one possibility open for future revelation (which could ultimately clarify this point; of course, I believe this clarification came along in Revelation 17, taken in conjunction with Daniel 7; more on that in Part 2 of this post).

It’s worth reinforcing the connection between the word for “divided” here (pᵊlaḡ, pronounced peh-LAG) and the name “Peleg”, used in Genesis 10:25: “Two sons were born to Eber; the name of the one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan.” (1995 NASB). The “division” referred to here isn’t the continents splitting apart (the vast majority of continental drift would’ve happened during the Flood, with a minuscule fraction of it occurring since), but the early post-Flood families being dispersed from Babel by language barriers and claiming different portions of the earth’s surface for their own nations. Since there were dozens of families involved in this (Genesis 10), it’s clear that the type of “division” associated with this word isn’t restricted to division into only 2 parts! Transferring this point about the Hebrew word’s connotations to its Aramaic equivalent is especially acceptable in this case, since the word for “divided” in Genesis 10:25, H6385, is a relatively rare Hebrew word for “divided”, used only 4 times in the OT (Genesis 10:25, 1 Chronicles 1:19, Job 38:25, & Psalm 55:9)–for example, the word for “divided” in Genesis 10:5,32 is H6504, which is used 26 times in the OT. In fact, among all the Hebrew words rendered “divide” in the KJV, only H1334 is used less often than H6385 (twice in Genesis 15:10, and nowhere else)! These points (and all the Biblical precedent meshed in with them) should be borne in mind when considering any eschatological implications of this passage.

Third, note that the “stone” strikes the figure on its feet and toes. Pulliam and I agree that this event (whenever it was meant to happen) marks the beginning of Jesus’ reign in its fullest form. But that creates a major historical problem for Pulliam. The Roman Republic conquered the Seleucid Empire in 63 B.C., transitioned from a Republic to an Empire in the period between 44 & 27 B.C., and conquered the Ptolemaic Empire in 30 B.C. These two conquests (and those of the rest of the former Alexandrian Empire, whose land holdings included much of the former Medo-Persian and Neo-Babylonian Empires) fulfilled Daniel 2:40; hence, verse 40 has been fulfilled ever since 30 B.C. However, Pulliam holds that Christ’s Kingdom began (fulfilling verse 44) in A.D. 33 (in a chart on p. 137, Pulliam seems to identify the exact starting point of the Kingdom as Jesus’ death on the cross, an event I place in A.D. 30 {HIDMF p. 663,669-672}). So if Pulliam’s interpretation is correct, then all the events of verses 41-43 (the kingdom under discussion being divided [verse 41] between multiple “kings” [verse 44], and becoming weak and in danger of collapsing in its latter days [verse 42] due to the rulers marrying, having offspring with, mingling with, and/or making alliances with those who aren’t of the ruling class [verse 43]) must have been fulfilled between 30 B.C. and A.D. 30/33. So, when in that time range did these events happen? The answer is simple: THEY DIDN’T! Aside from the fact that the “kingdom’s end” (verse 42) for the Roman Empire didn’t come until centuries after Jesus’ time, with the Western Roman Empire collapsing in A.D. 476, the Pax Romana, the period of history where the Roman Empire experienced the greatest peace and stability, lasted from 27 B.C. to A.D. 180! (Fitting, isn’t it, that the “Prince of Peace” came to Earth incarnate during a time of peace that was unprecedented in the history of civilization? Also note that Ezekiel 38:11 implies that the War of Gog & Magog occurs at a time when Israel is experiencing a period of even greater peace–to the point where cities no longer have walls, gates, bars, etc.! What nation in history has ever experienced that level of peace?! This is the main giveaway that the events prophesied in Ezekiel 38-39 occur at the end of Jesus’ Millennial reign.) The situation in the Roman Empire leading up to and during Jesus’ ministry was exactly the opposite of what was prophesied in verses 42-43! This would also explain why the stone isn’t said to strike the figure “on its lower legs, feet, and toes” (as you’d expect the text to say if the lower legs and the feet & toes were the same kingdom).

Fourth, returning to the point made above about God withholding details because it wasn’t the right time to reveal them (and thus, leaving multiple possibilities open until additional revelation is given later): something similar may be going on with a number being given in verse 40, but not in verse 41. Pulliam seems to interpret the lack of the word “fifth” in verse 41 as meaning that the same kingdom is referred to throughout verses 40-43. But consider the implications of including the word “fifth” when the first four kingdoms (which are numbered) turned out to be consecutive. If “fifth” had been included in verse 41, and the Roman Empire was the fourth kingdom, then the fifth kingdom would naturally be the Byzantine Empire! (The Roman Empire split into Western and Eastern halves in A.D. 330, with the Western half continuing to be headquartered in Rome, and the Eastern half being headquartered in Constantinople. The Western Roman Empire fell in 476, while the Byzantine Empire endured until 1453–nearly a millennium later!) To my knowledge, nobody is claiming that Jesus’ Kingdom began at the fall of Constantinople! (And lest you object that the nations being discussed in these passages are obviously the nations with control over Israel following the first destruction of Jerusalem, the Roman Empire held the land of Israel until the early 4th century, when it transferred to the Byzantine Empire, who eventually lost it to the Muslims in the 630s.) Hence, another possible interpretation is that Daniel was inspired not to include a number in verse 41 because the lower legs and the feet & toes represented two non-consecutive kingdoms, with other kingdoms rising and falling between them! And before Pulliam objects that this amounts to “speculation”, rendering the interpretation “subjective”: which interpretation is correct must be decided in light of additional divine revelation.

As a quick aside, “the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold” being “shattered as one” as an indirect result of the stone striking the feet and toes doesn’t contradict the fact that the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Macedonian, Seleucid, Ptolemaic, and Roman Empires no longer exist–because they do still exist, just not by those names or with their former glory or extent. All these nations still have remnant populations to this day: Babylonia is now Iraq; Media & Persia are now Iran; Macedonia is now Greece, North Macedonia, and parts of surrounding nations; the Seleucid Kingdom is now Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and parts of other nations throughout the Middle East; the Ptolemaic Kingdom is now Egypt, coastal Libya, and the Island of Cyprus; and the Roman Empire is now most of Europe, northern Africa, and the westernmost parts of the Middle East. My openly futurist understanding is that for every nation that’s ever harassed or oppressed Israel in ancient times, what’s left of those nations will be judged for it on the Day of the Lord (e.g., Isaiah 13:1-14:2, which mentions the city of Babylon being judged on the Day of the Lord and its survivors being taken to Israel as servants–which didn’t happen following the Babylonian Exile; and Obadiah 15 — the first Biblical mention, chronologically, of the Day of the Lord — which mentions that “the day of the LORD draws near on all the nations.” — 1995 NASB, boldface added), they and the Israelites will be planted back on their ancestral lands, and only those willing to repent and worship the God of Israel will be permitted to survive (Jeremiah 12:14-17) and participate in Christ’s Kingdom (Psalm 2:9 LXX; Matthew 22:1-14, especially verses 11-13; etc.).

An Example of Preterist Eisegesis

Now, let’s consider Pulliam’s follow-up argument for the interpretation he presents on p. 179 (don’t worry, this discussion will be much shorter!).

When we come to the New Testament, an inspired proclamation begins to go forth: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mk 1:15). What time was fulfilled? Jesus was saying that those days were the intended time for Old Testament prophecy to be fulfilled. It was the days of that final kingdom in Nebuchadnezzar’s image. The fourth kingdom (Rome) was in power (Lk 3:1), and the messenger to prepare the way had already come (Mk 1:1-5, cmp. Mal 3:1; Isa 40:3). Any effort to move the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy into the future makes Christ’s proclamation a mistake. He said the time was fulfilled. God’s timetable placed the kingdom in the days of the Roman kings. The stage was set, the curtain had risen, and the players were in place.

{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 179-180. Italics and boldface in original.}

This is simply a non-sequitur (perhaps even a straw grasp). There’s nothing in the context of Mark 1:15 indicating that the time that “has been fulfilled” (the verb is perfect-tense, not present-tense) was the time for Old Testament prophecy (as a whole or regarding Daniel’s visions) to be fulfilled. In reality, Jesus was referring to the prophecies about John the Baptist’s ministry (Malachi 3:1 & Isaiah 40:3, as Pulliam conveniently pointed out), in light of the fact that Mark 1:14 informs us that Jesus said this “after the delivering up of John [into prison]” (YLT). As for Jesus’ remark that “the reign of God hath come nigh” (Mark 1:15b YLT): again, the verb for “at hand”/“come nigh” is perfect-tense, not present-tense, implying something that had already happened and was currently yielding its results when Jesus said this. It’s clear from the discussions in these posts that the Kingdom of God isn’t in its fullest form yet, so it obviously wasn’t in its fullest form when Jesus made this proclamation early in his earthly ministry, either. In fact, the understanding of Mark 1:15 that Pulliam’s putting forth here contradicts his own idea that the Kingdom didn’t commence until the time of Jesus’ death on the cross (per the image of a cross in his chart on p. 137)! So to be consistent with that idea, Pulliam must agree with me that Jesus’ statement here refers to something other than the present Kingdom (as understood by Pulliam or myself).

I hold that, as God’s representative acting on His behalf, Jesus wielded some authority of his Father (and by extension, His Kingdom) during his earthly ministry (this was why he was able to cast out demons, for instance: “if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.” — Luke 11:20c 1995 NASB, boldface added). Hence, Jesus embodied the Kingdom of God during this time! Once he ascended to heaven at the end of his earthly ministry, he continued exercising this authority over those things that had been under the heavenly dominions since the beginning (angels, miraculous occurrences, etc.). And once the Holy Spirit was poured out on believers at Pentecost, they and any institutions that they would submit to Christ’s authority came under the heavenly dominions, as well. And once Jesus returns, everything on Earth that presently isn’t in the heavenly dominions will become part of it. This understanding of how Christ’s Kingdom has expanded and will expand over time sufficiently explains all of the passages brought up on the subject throughout this series — including Mark 1:15.

Daniel 10 & 11

Pulliam’s discussion on Daniel 10 is his briefest of all in these 2 lessons. But for once, I agree with just about everything he says:

For the purpose of this study, there is only one aspect we need to dwell on in Daniel 10. Mention of Persia and Greece sets the tone for the reader moving forward into Daniel 11. The stage is set, and the players are about to become involved in the great drama engulfing “the end.” Persia has been withstanding, and Greece will soon come onto the stage (Dan 10:13 & 20). Daniel is about to learn what will happen to his people in “the latter days” (Dan 10:14). These “latter days” begin with the kings of Persia (Dan 11:2), and work their way through the history of the Grecian empire from Alexander onward.

{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 191. Italics and boldface in original. Underlining mine.}

Daniel 10 indeed sets the background for Daniel 11; after all, the lack of Daniel’s name in Daniel 11:1 implies that God’s preincarnate Son (note that the description of Jesus in Revelation 1:13-15 draws most of its details from the description of the messenger in Daniel 10:5-6) was speaking those words to Daniel — in fact, this implies that everything from Daniel 10:20b through 12:4 is Jesus’ words! Moreover, note that Daniel 11:1b mentions something this messenger did “in the first year of Darius the Mede” (KJV)–which was also the first year of Cyrus over the Jews (Cyrus installed Darius the Mede — his father-in-law — as king over Babylonia once Belshazzar had been slain), which was also the year during which the 70 “sevens” began (Daniel 9:3,23,25, Isaiah 44:24-45:13, Ezra 1:1-4) {for a more thorough discussion of this timing detail, see HIDMF p. 656-668}! Hence, Pulliam is on the right track by concluding that all the events of Daniel 11 would occur during the 70 “sevens”.

However, there’s something worth noting here that Pulliam seemed to not be aware of (although I’m not in a position to say he’d have a problem with it). The Hebrew phrase the 1995 NASB rendered “the time of the end” in Daniel 11:35,40 & 12:4,9 is עֵת קֵץ; the same phrase in 8:17 is עֶת־קֵץ (the same words as the instances from Daniel 11 & 12, but with the first vowel different to accommodate the preposition prefixed to the phrase); and the phrase rendered “the appointed time of the end” in 8:19 is מוֹעֵד קֵץ (the same word for “end” as in verse 17, but a different word for “time”–specifically, H4150, a word normally applied to a set time of year or a time set aside to meet for some purpose). Yet the Hebrew words for “the latter days” in Daniel 10:14 (1995 NASB) are totally different from all the ones just listed: אַחֲרִית הַיָּמִים. God’s Son was evidently designating “the latter days” as a longer period of time that would end with “the time of the end”! So while “the latter days” started during the Persian period, “the time of the end” didn’t.

Pulliam says regarding Daniel 11:2-35, “For the most part, interpretations of their fulfillment in history agree.” {“In the Days of Those Kings”. 192.} My interpretation of those verses is no exception. Verse 2 predicted the wealth and military instigations of the 4th Persian King after Cyrus II, Xerxes I. Verses 3-4 predicted the conquests of Alexander the Great, and the partitioning of his empire among 4 of his generals after his death. Verses 5-20 predicted the intrigue within and between the royal houses of 2 of those 4 partitions, the Seleucids (the “king of the north”) and the Ptolemies (the “king of the south”), that took place over the next century-and-a-half. Verses 21-32a predicted many of the despicable acts of the Seleucid king Antiochus IV Epiphanes. And verses 32b-35 predicted the Jews’ persecution under Antiochus Epiphanes, the Maccabbean Revolt, and the persecution and testing of Jews by Gentile nations from the time of their victory over the Seleucids all the way “until the time of the end” (verse 35b ESV)–I suspect all the anti-Semitism we’ve seen over the centuries is one aspect of the fulfillment of verse 35.

Sure, Pulliam insists that there’s no such thing as “partially fulfilled prophecy” (which I’m implying verse 35 to be an example of, since anti-Semitism is sadly still a thing), but I demolish that claim here. It’s worth adding that while verse 36 begins with a waw-consecutive perfect-tense verb, the prior waw-consecutive perfect-tense verb is “and … will join” from verse 34 (NASB). Between the facts that (a) verse 35 opens with a waw-disjunctive construction (the letter ו prefixed to a non-verb at the start of a sentence); (b) the verb for “will fall” (NASB) is imperfect-tense without a waw-consecutive construction; and (c) verse 35 features the phrase “until the time of the end” (ESV), using the same Hebrew phrase for “the time of the end” found in verse 40 (עֵת קֵץ); it’s clear that verse 35 is a parenthetical statement whose time of completion isn’t necessarily tied to the chronological sequence created by the waw-consecutives following it in the prophecy! Don’t believe my claims about the Hebrew text? Feel free to check here by clicking the word “TOOLS” next to the highlighted verses.

Aside from that, it’s not until verse 36 that I start disagreeing with Pulliam (as he probably would’ve guessed). However, he probably wouldn’t have guessed that I also disagree with dispensationalists at this point!

Pulliam says a fair amount on p. 182-183 about the importance of “knowing Bible history”. It’s ironic, then, that he makes mention early on in his book about “Daniel 11:36-39 (which refers to Antiochus Epiphanes around 168 BC)” {“In the Days of Those Kings”. 32. Boldface added.}. Yet on p. 192, he points out that Antiochus Epiphanes isn’t the only king prophesied about in Daniel 11 in order to counter dispensationalist theologian John Walvoord’s argument that “verses 36 onward [must apply to the Antichrist because they] could not apply to Antiochus Epiphanes.” {Boldface mine. See also source cited therein.} Seriously, how many more contradictions am I going to find in Pulliam’s work?!

Walvoord was correct that verses 36 onward weren’t fulfilled in Antiochus Epiphanes. Indeed, this is the main reason most Biblical scholars think the fulfillment of every verse from Daniel 11:36-12:3 is still future! (Even most amillennialists think these verses have yet to be fulfilled, though perhaps not literally; about the only scholars who don’t are preterists, who are compelled to push the fulfillment of every OT prophecy into the past–just as Pulliam tries to do throughout his book!) However, the mistake dispensationalists are making here is a somewhat surprising one: they’re trying to place their time jump to the apocalypse too early in the text! Despite his citation of verse 40 on p. 193, Pulliam makes no mention whatsoever of the phrase “And at the time of the end” in verse 40a (KJV), which forces us to conclude that the time jump to the apocalypse that dispensationalists place at the start of verse 36 (and that Pulliam denies is anywhere to be found in the text) is actually at the start of verse 40! This further indicates that Daniel 11:40-12:3 (and only those verses, in the entire prophecy from 11:2-12:3) were to be fulfilled “at the time of the end” and/or beyond it. Therefore, verses 36-39 were to be fulfilled before “the time of the end”.

I agree with Pulliam that the events of Daniel 11:2-12:1 would all be fulfilled during the 70 “sevens”: after all, those 70 “sevens” refer to a set of 500 Hebrew years (not 490, as nearly all scholars have assumed–each set of 7 consecutive “sevens” amounts to a complete Jubilee cycle, so an extra year must be intercalated after every 7 “sevens”, making them 50 years long instead of 49; more details may be found in {HIDMF p. 675-680}) during which God would deal with Israel as a nation, and the events mentioned in Daniel 11:2-12:3 are singled out among all the historical events that would take place during that time period because these events would impact Israel. Of course, the major difference between Pulliam and I is which years we associate with the 70 “sevens”. He believes that the 70 “sevens” ended in A.D. 36, 3.5 years after the date he accepts for Jesus’ crucifixion. I, on the other hand, peg the first 69 “sevens” as occurring between Rosh Hashanah of 464 B.C. (the start of the first Hebrew year to begin after Cyrus issued the decree mentioned in Daniel 9:23,25) and Rosh Hashanah of A.D. 29. (the start of the Hebrew year during which the crucifixion actually occurred), and the 70th “seven” as occurring between Rosh Hashanah of 2029 and Rosh Hashanah of 2037 (note the gap of exactly 2,000 Hebrew years between the 69th & the 70th “seven”, which I briefly — yet conclusively — justify in this post; I give a much more thorough justification in Appendix D of my upcoming book {HIDMF p. 723-750}). Since the fulfillment of Daniel 11:35 began around 164 B.C., we should constrain our search for fulfillments of the remaining verses to what years of the 70 “sevens” remain after 164 B.C. by each of our reckoning. Pulliam’s time window would thus be 164 B.C.-A.D. 36, while my time window would be 164 B.C.-A.D. 29, OR 2029-2037.

In fact, the fulfillment of verses 36-39 fits into both time windows. As the late Bryan T. Huie explained: “Both secular history and the New Testament record the acts of a king who appeared on the scene in Israel at the end of the Hasmonean period. As we shall see, this king fulfilled every prophetic description given in verses 36 through 39. That king was Herod the Great.” (boldface mine; feel free to click that last hyperlink for historical details on how Herod fulfilled these verses!) Josephus said Herod the Great ruled Judea on behalf of the Romans for 37 years, and I peg his death as being early in 1 B.C. {HIDMF p. 710-711}; hence, Herod reigned from 38-1 B.C. It’s worth adding that a certain Murrell Selden once wrote that: “Based upon the writings of Josephus (which appear to be mostly accurate), the anchor date of the war between Antony and Octavius Caesar, and calculations of relevant lunar events, it appears that Herod the Great died on January 26 (Shebat 2) in 1 B.C.E.” If January 26 was indeed the Julian equivalent of Shebat 2 (which Jewish tradition holds to be the day of the year on which Herod died) for the year 1 B.C., this would be consistent with my conclusion that the lunar eclipse Josephus said occurred shortly before Herod’s death was the total lunar eclipse of January 10, 1 B.C. {HIDMF p. 710} (too bad Selden’s lunar eclipse dates for that period are totally off {scroll to p. 41-42 in the PDF–the white area on each map is where the eclipse would’ve been visible, and negative years are off from the BC date by 1; i.e., 0001 means A.D. 1, 0000 means 1 B.C., -0001 means 2 B.C., etc.})!

Recall that verse 40 opens with the phrase “And at the time of the end” (and note that Huie’s explanation of verse 40 totally ignored this phrase). The ו before a preposition and a noun (suggesting either a waw-disjunctive or a waw-conjunctive) and the 2 imperfect verbs (rendered “will collide” and “and will storm” in the 1995 NASB) without waw-consecutives make this seem parenthetical at first glance (i.e., waw-disjunctive instead of waw-conjunctive) in light of my discussion about verse 35. However, we go on to see not one, but three waw-consecutive perfect-tense verbs further into verse 40 (rendered “and he will enter”, “overflow”, and “and pass through” in the 1995 NASB). Hence, the ו at the start of verse 40 operates as a simple conjunction, and the sequence indicated by the 3 waw-consecutives (and the waw-consecutives throughout the remainder of the passage) starts from “the time of the end” indicated in verse 40. This means that the interpretation of Huie (and Pulliam) that verses 40-43 were fulfilled in the fall of Ptolemaic Egypt to Rome can’t be correct, since Herod’s “not giv[ing] heed … upon the desire of women” (my right-to-left translation of the phrase לֹא יָבִין וְעַל־חֶמְדַּת נָשִׁים in verse 37b) was fulfilled in his slaughter of all the boys in Bethlehem under the age of 2–nearly 3 decades after the fall of Ptolemaic Egypt! Hence, the fall of Ptolemaic Egypt is a type of this passage’s eventual fulfillment, at best.1

However, early on in Lesson 18, Pulliam gave himself an “out” (maybe consciously, maybe not) on this point about the fall of Ptolemaic Egypt not fulfilling the events of verses 40-43 because the fall of Ptolemaic Egypt didn’t occur “at the time of the end”. He did so by drawing the reader’s attention to an admittedly important issue: what “the time of the end” refers to.

The first explanation within this section [Daniel 8-12] begins at Daniel 8:15. The first thing we need to understand is that this vision “pertains to the time of the end” (Dan 8:17). The “time of the end” must be understood by what is revealed in this text. Many Bible students, including Dispensational scholars, immediately assume that these prophecies are about the End Times.…
The word “end” is also used in Daniel 11, but we must remember that it does not tell us anything without understanding what is “ending.” We must know how that word is being used. Before we study Daniel 10 and 11, we must take a brief look, at Daniel 8. Although, for the most part, we are agreed on the fulfillment of chapter eight, these same events are discussed with greater detail in Daniel 11.

{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 188. Boldface and italics in original. Underlining and content in brackets mine.}

Fair enough. The prophecy of Daniel 8 was given in the 3rd year of Belshazzar, while that of Daniel 9 was given in the 1st year of Darius the Mede (which was also the 1st year of Cyrus over the Jews), and those of Daniel 10-12 were given in the 3rd year of Cyrus; hence, following chronological Biblical precedent would require you to define terms that aren’t defined by the context in the prophecy of Daniel 9 in light of how those terms are used in Daniel 8, and to define such terms in Daniel 10-12 in light of how those terms are used in all of the chapters preceding each of them. Thus, the use of “the time of the end” in Daniel 8 defines the term for the rest of the book.

Daniel 7

Well, there’s also Daniel 7:26c (given in the 1st year of Belshazzar, before any of the prophecies later in the book), which refers to the kingdom with 10 kings and another king after them as being “taken away, to annihilate and to destroy it unto the end”, when you check the Aramaic text. (Not “annihilated and destroyed forever”, as in the 1995 NASB, which Pulliam quotes to refute the dispensationalist claim that the Roman Empire will be revived in the future {p. 181}; of course, while I place the kingdom of this verse in the future, I also reject the idea that it will be a “revived Roman Empire”, on the technicality that Revelation 17:12,16,18 tells us this kingdom’s rulers will hate the city of Rome–why, then, should we expect them to place their kingdom’s capital there?!) Pulliam applies this verse to the fall of the Roman Empire in the 5th century, but he can only do so by completely ignoring the very next verse, which thoroughly contradicts Pulliam’s view of Christ’s Kingdom: “Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints [literally, “the holy ones”] of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.” (Daniel 7:27 1995 NASB, underlining and boldface added) The phrase “under the whole heaven” rules out the idea that the Kingdom referred to here would be in heaven, and the fact that “the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms… will be given to the people of the holy ones of the Highest One” tells us that authority over governments, cultures, economies, etc. will be included in the Kingdom being spoken of here–not just the hearts and minds of the faithful. This matches my views on Christ’s Kingdom perfectly, but it rules out the possibility that the fourth beast of Daniel 7 (the one destroyed in verse 26) was the Roman Empire–or any other kingdom up to the time of this writing!

Speaking of which, let’s consider Pulliam’s full discussion on Daniel 7 (yes, it really is this brief).

Another prophecy of the coming kingdom is revealed in Daniel 7. In this prophecy, Daniel sees a vision of four beasts, and then the vision is interpreted for him. Like the prophecy of Daniel 2, this one foretells four kingdoms and the Messiah coming to reign during the time of the fourth kingdom. Concerning the end of the four kingdoms in this prophecy, Daniel says:

11 “… I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.”

(Daniel 7:11f)

Of great interest here is the fact that the first three kingdoms are granted “an extension of life” for a “period of time,” but the fourth kingdom comes to an end with no extension of life granted to it. When Rome fell, there was no kingdom or country left of it. Only a city bore its name. The previous three kingdoms (Babylonian, Persian, and Grecian) all had territorial boundaries remaining after they were conquered. Later in Daniel 7, we read, “But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever” (v26). Dispensationalists claim that the Roman Empire will be revived so the Messiah can establish His kingdom. This prophecy says that the Roman Empire can never be revived. Rome was completely slain. It was annihilated and destroyed forever.

Within this vision is the Son of Man (Jesus) receiving power from the Ancient of Days (the Father). At this point, the Son of Man is given dominion, glory and a kingdom (v14). The Dispensationalist tells us that this is fulfilled by Christ’s current reign in heaven, but that we must still wait for Him to sit on the throne of David. Jesus did go into heaven, and as we have already learned, Jesus is on the throne of David at the right hand of God now.

Daniel not only pins down the time when the Messiah would come, but also declares that he would set up His kingdom at that time. If the Messiah’s kingdom did not come during the Roman Empire, then prophetic Scripture has failed. Dispensationalism fails to uphold the prophetic word that it claims to interpret so accurately.

{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 180-181. Indentation, italics, and boldface in original. Underlining mine.}

Once again, Pulliam has overlooked several details. I’ve already dealt with the point about verse 26 (and called out his lack of discussion about verse 27) above, but it’s worth bringing out that he claimed that this prophecy foretold 4 kingdoms, and includes Babylonia as one of them–despite the fact that Daniel received this vision in the first year of Belshazzar (verse 1), the last Babylonian king! If this vision foretold four kingdoms, then it was given too late for Babylonia to be one of them! Once again, the context contradicts Pulliam’s claims. But this is admittedly a minor mistake, since his identifications for the first 3 beasts are correct: The first beast, “like a lion with eagles’ wings” (Daniel 7:4b NLT), represents the Babylonian empire; the “second one, resembling a bear” (verse 5b NASB), represents the Persian empire; and the third one, “like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back” (verse 6b ESV), represents the Alexandrian empire. This will come up again in Part 2.

As for the point about an “extension of life” for the first 3 kingdoms: this easily comports with the above-mentioned points about the nations being judged on the Day of the Lord and Jesus striking the final world superpower before his return (recall that 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 portrays Jesus’ parousia, the rapture, and the Day of the Lord as all occurring together {HIDMF, p. 773-774}) directly, but the other kingdoms less directly. The kingdom of the Antichrist will not be allowed to persist past the start of Jesus’ reign, but many other nations that are still on Earth at that time will. The sheer number of foreign nations that are named in OT prophecies describing the Messiah’s Kingdom make it clear that there will still be national distinctions within the Kingdom–not to mention the remark in Revelation 22:2c that “the leaves of the tree [of life] are for the healing of the nations.” (NIV, boldface added) Indeed, this is why Jesus will be called the “King of kings, and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:16c YLT) at that time–Jesus will be the King and Lord that all the other kings and lords in the world will have to answer to; after all, this is the sense of the phrase “king of kings” when applied to Nebuchadnezzar (Ezekiel 26:7; Daniel 2:37, as we saw above!) and Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:12)!

It’s also worth pointing out another contradiction in Pulliam’s logic. He points out in Lesson 5 (“Two Monumental Words”) that the Biblical words for “forever” or “everlasting” don’t necessarily mean “never-ever-ending” {p. 49-57}. “We know that the words forever and everlasting have a wide range of application. It is up to us to be careful that we not apply the wrong meaning. The definition of this word has the power to determine what you believe about the entire Bible.” {p. 56. Italics in original.} Yet Pulliam shows no carefulness whatsoever when interpreting “forever” in Daniel 7:26 as meaning “never-ever-ending”! Why can’t dispensationalists just use Pulliam’s own logic against him to claim that this verse is saying that the Roman Empire will only be destroyed for a finite amount of time (especially in light of the Aramaic phrasing, which I brought out at the start of this section) when Pulliam himself supports his point in Lesson 5 by pointing out that Jeremiah 17:4 used the term “forever” with reference to the 70-year captivity in Babylon?! {p. 54} Clearly, Pulliam’s decisions for what “forever” means in which passages are much more arbitrary than he wants his readers to think!

Note Pulliam’s remark that he and his dispensationalist opponents are in agreement that Daniel 7:13-14 was fulfilled when Jesus ascended to his Father’s right side. Here are those verses from the version Pulliam personally told me he prefers, the 1995 NASB:

I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.

His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

(Underlining added)

Pulliam and his dispensationalist opponents have both made the mistake of claiming that this prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus’ ascension to the Father’s right side, when it will actually be fulfilled with Jesus’ second coming. As you may have guessed, that’s not a mere assertion on my part; it becomes clear that this prophecy hasn’t been fulfilled yet once you look more carefully at the Aramaic text of verse 14:

וְלֵהּ יְהִיב שָׁלְטָן וִיקָר וּמַלְכוּ וְכֹל עַמְמַיָּא אֻמַיָּא וְלִשָּׁנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן שָׁלְטָנֵהּ שָׁלְטָן עָלַם דִּי־לָא יֶעְדֵּה וּמַלְכוּתֵהּ דִּי־לָא תִתְחַבַּל׃ פ

Here’s a word-by-word translation of this verse, with slashes to represent the spaces between words and dashes to represent a ־; note the underlined phrase carefully, especially in light of the italicized phrase “men of every” in the 1995 NASB, revealing that those words weren’t in the Aramaic text.

And to him / was forcibly given [the Peil stem indicates a more intensive form of giving; i.e., what had belonged to the world is being repossessed by the Father and given to His Son] / dominion / and honor / and a kingdom. / And all / the peoples, / the nations, / and the tongues: / to him / they will pay reverence. / His dominion / is a dominion / age-enduring, / that which — never / will pass away, / and his kingdom / that which – never / will be destroyed. / [end major train of thought]

In the phrase “all the peoples, the nations, and the tongues”, the word “all” is qualifying all three terms following it. Do all nations pay reverence to Jesus now? Absolutely not. Individuals within any given nation may worship Jesus, but that nation on the whole doesn’t. A nation is a distinct entity from the people comprising it (whether individually or collectively); that was as true in the ancient world as it is today. But another relevant point is something that was true in the ancient world, but generally isn’t true today (which is probably another reason why dispensationalists misunderstand this verse; after all, their “bride-beating groom” argument for pre-Tribulationism displays a penchant for ethnocentrism! {HIDMF, p. 780}): in the ancient world, every nation had its own god that was worshiped on the national level.2 The Greeks actually extended this to the city level (e.g., Athens got Athena, Corinth got Aphrodite, Ephesus got Artemis, etc.)! This was a major reason why Israel’s neighbors needed some convincing that “the God of Israel” was the One who’d created the heavens and the earth, as opposed to just another local god like theirs!

Hence, Daniel 7:13-14 foretells a time when the Son of Man would be worshiped by all nations on a national level for the rest of eternity. The constant cries in our day about “separation of church and state” should be Exhibit A that such a time hasn’t arrived yet!

Teaser: The Key to this Whole Prophetic Puzzle

Anyway, back to the point about “the time of the end” being defined in Daniel 8. Pulliam’s exposition on what the term means in Daniel 8 focuses on the conquests of Alexander the Great over Persia, the splitting of the Alexandrian empire into 4 parts, and the subsequent rise of Antiochus Epiphanes. He then gives some conclusions that I have no doubt he thinks are especially powerful:

Among the kings of the North, would arise a wicked king named Antiochus IV Epiphanes. He defiled the temple in Jerusalem in 168 BC so the Jews could not offer sacrifices (see chart on page 192). Josephus tells us of his death, indicating the fulfillment of verse twenty-five.
All of this is what we are to understand as “the time of the end.” (Dan 8:17). This is repeated a few verses later: “Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for it pertains to the appointed time of the end.” (Dan 8:19). We must remain true to the context to understand what “end” is being discussed. This vision is set during the period when Persia and Greece were in conflict, and the conflict that would immediately follow when Alexander died. Dispensationalists agree with this portion of its historical fulfillment.

{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 189. Underlining mine.}

However, despite Pulliam’s insistence that “We must remain true to the context”, he conveniently leaves out the fact that the vision Daniel 8:15 starts explaining as “pertaining to the time of the end” ends in verse 14. And it’s in the last 2 verses of that vision that we get a key detail that the correct interpretation of what set(s) of years are referred to as “the time of the end” in Daniel 8 (and by implication, throughout the rest of Daniel) must be able to explain:

Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, “For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?” And he said to me [the Septuagint, Theodotion’s Greek translation, & the Latin Vulgate all have “to him”], “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state [or “shall be made right”].” (Daniel 8:13-14 ESV, boldface and underlining added)

What’s Pulliam’s view on the 2,300 evenings and mornings mentioned here? He never says, despite the fact that this number clearly “pertains to the time of the end”! He evidently tries to apply these two verses to Antiochus Epiphanes in the 2nd century B.C., in light of the quote above that references his timeline on p. 192, which cites “Dan 8:13-14” & “Dan 11:31” under “168 BC”. The problem with this is that the time of the desolation of Jerusalem’s second temple under Antiochus Epiphanes was only 3 lunar years (also according to Josephus!), which isn’t even half as much as 2,300 days! I can’t say I blame him for not touching this number with a ten-foot pole, though: nearly all eschatological camps fail to give a coherent explanation for these 2,300 evenings and mornings! In fact, in 1998, Larry W. Wilson presented the following results of a historical survey of expositors throughout the Christian era {Scroll to “Introduction and Historical Survey”}:

After reviewing 66 prominent scholars who wrote explanations on prophecy between the years of A.D. 430 to 1781, it is interesting that few expositors say anything at all about Daniel 8. Among these expositors, no consensus on the meaning of Daniel 8 exists, especially the 2,300 days mentioned in verse 14. Notice how their conclusions, written over a period of 1,351 years, are summarized:

1. The 2,300 days represent years: 21 writers
2. The 2,300 days are 2,300 literal days: 3 writers
3. The 2,300 days reach to the end of the world: 6 writers
4. The 2,300 days represent 1,150 24-hour days: 1 writer
5. No comment on the 2,300 days: 35 writers

For this survey, I purposely selected writers who wrote before the beginning of the 19th century when Baptist evangelist, William Miller, and many others, both in Europe and the United States began teaching that the 2,300 days would end during the 19th century. It is important to note that before the 19th century there was no consensus position on the meaning of Daniel 8. In fact, very little has ever been written on Daniel 8 during the past two millenniums.

Of course, this amount of variety (and failure) shouldn’t surprise us, since the explanation of Daniel 8 ends as follows: “The vision of the evenings and the mornings that has been told is true, but seal up the vision, for it refers to many days from now.” (Daniel 8:26 ESV, boldface added) Wilson’s own view (which would fall under category #1 in the above list, with the years being from 457 B.C. — when Artaxerxes’ decree to Ezra was given according to the mainstream chronology, which Wilson pegs as the starting point of the 70 Weeks of Daniel 9; see HIDMF, p. 691-692 for my discussion of the main problem with this decree being the one of Daniel 9:25 — to A.D. 1844, when the Heavenly Temple would supposedly be cleansed), aside from having no significant event in 1844 to make the fulfillment obvious to anyone (which is presumably why he makes out the endpoint to be something that happened in heaven, not on Earth), makes the common mistake of assuming a 49-year Jubilee Cycle, violating the clear words of Leviticus 25:11 {see also my discussion in HIDMF, p. 675-678}. The most coherent view I’ve seen other than the one I espouse was this one by Rick Lanser, which he subsequently repudiated and refuted here–and replaced with an explanation that amounts to 2,204-2,264 days, preceded by a period of 36-to-96 days that history has left us no documentation for the length of!

The view I espouse, on the other hand, achieves a level of precision that Lanser settled for dreaming of (“As a former draftsman and computer programmer, I have always valued precision. I have found, though, we have to be content with only as much precision as the actual evidence God has preserved for us allows. Exactness cannot be an end in itself.” {See previous hyperlink}). I already mention my answer to this puzzle in Appendix D of my upcoming book, but I had to condense the explanation there in an attempt at brevity (that Appendix wound up being 108 pages long, for crying out loud!). So I’ll supplement that discussion by giving a more thorough explanation in the next post, with plenty of Biblical statements to corroborate it. And we’ll also see that it just so happens to line up perfectly with all the passages from Daniel that Pulliam appeals to in Lessons 17 & 18 to justify placing “the time of the end” in the days of the Roman Empire. (But since I still have yet to complete and submit the proposal for my book, here’s a hint: my explanation fits into category #2 in Wilson’s list.)


  1. What of Huie’s remark about verse 43 indicating that this verse must have been fulfilled before Egypt was stricken with the poverty it’s had from its fall to Octavius to today? Well, I have 2 remarks in response to that. First, the Hebrew words “all” and “precious things” are in construct forms, modifying “Egypt”, while “gold” and “silver” are in absolute forms, being modified by “hidden treasures”, which is in the construct form. Hence, the “precious things” are Egypt’s, but not necessarily the gold or silver. Second, consider all the priceless artifacts from ancient Egypt that have been unearthed in recent centuries. Could this verse be predicting that the Antichrist will gain control over all the museum collections of ancient Egyptian artifacts and take advantage of the monetary value of those artifacts? Sure, that sounds far-fetched, but it won’t once you learn who the Antichrist will be! {I’ll link specifically to the paragraph bringing it all together.} ↩︎
  2. How did the occasional pagans throughout history who worshiped the true God get through these national worship services without betraying Him? They probably just “went through the motions” when attending such national worship, like too many people do in churches today. Also bear in mind that most of these national religions wouldn’t have been very strict about their worship criteria, being more “do your own thing” in nature; they were among the plethora of “ethically easy” religions, in contrast to the few “ethically hard” religions like Judaism, Christianity, or Islam! ↩︎

The Time Gap of Daniel 9:24-27

Part 7 of this series

I’m giving you a short entry this time (a little over 2,600 words) so I can finally buckle down on the proposal for my upcoming book. I also have some things to say about Pulliam’s views on Christ’s Kingdom and our eternal destiny, and I suspect I’ll move the posts covering those to before this point in this critique series once it’s finished (to give future binge-readers a more natural sense of progression).

The Main Argument

One of the sections in Pulliam’s work that I saw problems with the fastest was Lesson 16: The Great Parenthesis. {p. 165-177}

If every prophecy of the Old Testament has been fulfilled, then Dispensationalism is in error. It is waiting for events that will never occur. Dispensationalism needs a huge gap in prophecy to extend the Bible timetable into the future. In Dispensationalism, everything between Christ’s triumphal entry into Jerusalem and the Rapture is their gap called the Great Parenthesis.

The primary passage for presenting this parenthesis is Daniel 9:26-27. The diagram at right presents their view, but we still must ask, “What within the text of Daniel 9 tells us that a parenthesis of time is occurring?” {“In the Days of Those Kings: A 24 Lesson Adult Bible Class Study on the Error of Dispensationalism”. Pulliam, Bob. 2015. Houston, TX: Book Pillar Publishing. 166. Italics in original. Underlining mine.}

Set aside the fact that Pulliam is admitting that his whole eschatology relies squarely on the premise that every prophecy in the OT has already been fulfilled, a notion that I already have pointed out a handful of problems with. In my upcoming book, I exegete Daniel 9 in some detail {HIDMF p. 657-669, 672-675, 679-680}–which is why I immediately knew that there is indeed something in the text that conclusively indicates a time gap in Daniel’s prophecy! But first, I feel like letting Pulliam embarrass himself (and his dispensationalist opponents) by making more statements that show his (and their) ignorance of that something:

Dispensationalists think that the prophecy “hints” that it is there. We are told to believe that, because the Messiah is cut off after week 69, there must be a gap between 69 and 70. In truth, the reader can safely assume that 70 follows 69. Daniel being told that it comes after 69 does not mean it is between 69 and 70. We know that it falls within the 70th because it is specifically dealt with in verse 27…

What we have is a specified period of time intended to instruct on God’s intentions. When God specified “when” in every other Bible prophecy, it came to pass “when” He said it would. Why is the Dispensationalist seeing something different here? He sees a postponement because his doctrine needs to delay the fulfillment of prophecy. He cannot get the Millennium into the seventy-week scenario clearly laid out for Daniel. If the seventy weeks have passed, then Jesus is already on the throne of David, but the Dispensationalist cannot accept that. In Dispensational theology, that final week must be a “container” housing a Rapture, Antichrist, Great Tribulation, and Battle of Armageddon. As long as the Dispensationalist holds his original views of Israel’s return to the land for a Millennial reign of the Messiah on David’s throne, he must move that final week into the future. {p. 167. Italics and boldface in original. Underlining mine.}

…The parenthesis (gap) theory is worse than fine print in a contract that traps an unwary signer. At least with the fine print, you can actually read what is specifically intended. {p. 168. Italics in original. Underlining mine.}

…In other words, there are seventy literal weeks, and no more; however, there is a hidden span of time between the sixty-ninth and seventieth week that Daniel “only hinted at”… His “hint” forces the student to believe Gabriel foretold an event as being after week 69, but not during week 70. Why? Because his doctrine needs extra time.

…We cannot justify a gap in a prophesied seventy week period that makes it longer than seventy weeks. {p. 169. Italics and boldface in original. Underlining mine.}

There are no parentheses, or gaps, in the prophecies of God. He has never had to insert a prophetic postponement because things just didn’t work out right. Dispensationalism needs them because its time line has moved events into the future, even though God has already carried them out. {p. 174. Italics and boldface in original. Underlining mine.}

I agree with every statement I underlined in these quotes. But I differ from dispensationalists by saying that the final “seven” is actually 8 years long (the sabbatical cycle over which the Apocalypse occurs, plus the Jubilee Year in which Jesus returns), just like every 7th “seven” in the prophecy is (since each successive set of 7 “sevens” constitutes a full Jubilee cycle) {HIDMF p. 675-680}; as a multiple of 7, the 70th “seven” would be no exception. I also disagree with them by having the Antichrist show up ~3.5 years into the Apocalypse (Revelation 11:7; the participle rendered “comes up” in the 1995 NASB is present-tense — i.e., “coming up” — meaning his resuscitation coincides with the end of the Two Witnesses’ testimony), the Great Tribulation constituting the 3.5 years following, and the Battle of Armageddon and Rapture occurring on the same day–Tishri 10 in the 8th year of the 70th “seven” (when Jesus will usher in the Jubilee Year with the trumpet blast; see 1 Corinthians 15:52 cf. Leviticus 25:9). I also reject the idea that God postponed the 70th week “because things just didn’t work out right”, although I can’t think of any dispensationalists who explicitly claim that is what happened here (that doesn’t mean none of them do, though!).

The Conclusive Rebuttal That Even Dispensationalists Miss

But I find it shameful that the dispensationalists Pulliam was citing here offered such pathetic arguments about the 70th “seven” being “hinted at”, as if they had no conclusive argument for that gap. It provides easy fodder for Pulliam to claim that they’re going beyond where the text warrants while he’s not. But the truth is, the real reason Pulliam and even the dispensationalists he’s citing don’t see an unequivocal gap in the text is because the gap is getting lost in translation! Here’s the rendering of verses 26-27 that Pulliam gives in his book:

Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. {p. 173. Italics and boldface in original. Underlining mine.}

Now, here are those same two verses as I quote them in my upcoming book, followed by my pointing out the textual justification for the time gap between the 69th & 70th “sevens”. Pay close attention to the underlined phrase in his quotation of verse 27a versus mine:

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood [“flood” was often a metaphor for a large army, cf. Isaiah 59:19, Jeremiah 46:7-8; see also Daniel 11:22], and unto the end of the war desolations are determined [Masoretic Text literally reads “and until the end, war is determined, causing desolations”]. (Daniel 9:26 KJV, emphases added)

And then he shall strengthen a covenant concerning many for one seven [literally, “many, seven one”], and half of the seven, he shall cause to cease sacrifice and offering, and on account of [or “and on”; the Hebrew preposition is `al…] a pinnacle [literally, “a wing”] of abominations, makes desolate even until consummation [literally, “until a completion”], and what’s been decided shall be poured on the desolation [singular]. (Daniel 9:27 my right-to-left translation, emphases added)

The Hebrew text of verse 27 opens with a waw-consecutive perfect-tense verb (“And then he shall strengthen”): the 70th “seven” occurs after the destruction of verse 26 (“shall destroy” is the last imperfect-tense verb prior) has already happened. This demands a time gap (40 years, minimum) between the end of the 69th “seven” and the beginning of the 70th.

{HIDMF p. 668-669, 673-674. Boldface and italics in original. Underlining added.}

Checkmate, Pulliam. There is indeed “fine print” (if he insists on calling it that) in Daniel’s prophecy that enables us to “actually read what is specifically intended”. As many ad hoc devices as dispensationalists have invented to prop up their ideas (e.g., the notion that the rapture of Christians is imminent, to prop up their idea that it occurs at the start of the Apocalypse rather than the end of it), the time gap in Daniel 9:25-27 isn’t one of them. It’s been right there in the Hebrew text this whole time. Don’t think my translation is accurate? Check out the Masoretic Text of verse 27 and click on the Parsing information for the very first word; the verb type is “Sequential Perfect (weqatal)”, which indicates that the action of the verb occurs chronologically after (or at earliest, coincides with) the action of the Imperfect (or Sequential Perfect) verb immediately before it (which in this case, would be “shall destroy”). Hence, the absolute earliest the 70th “seven” could have begun was at the second destruction of Jerusalem on Av 10 of A.D. 70, nearly 41 full years after the 69th “seven” ended!

Given how loudly dispensationalists trumpet their adherence to a “literal” hermeneutic, I’m surprised that they (especially Walvoord, who Pulliam cites a handful of times in the course of the above quotes) never pointed this out in their works that Pulliam consulted (or maybe some dispensationalists whose works Pulliam consulted did, and Pulliam just neglected to inform his readers of that fact; I personally can’t be bothered to figure out which of these scenarios is the truth). Then again, when I brought this to the attention of my friend John Gerstenmier (pastor of Tirzah Presbyterian Church in Waxhaw, NC), he reminded me that Bible teachers tend to argue from the translations they’re comfortable with, without checking the Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek–and I have yet to find an English translation that makes the waw-consecutives in the OT explicit like I do (or the waw-disjunctives, for that matter; English translations tend to render all of them as waw copulatives)!

Additional Remarks

There’s something else worth bringing out here that I don’t address in my book (aside from presenting the more literal rendering, as seen in the quote above): Many English translations render the last part of verse 26 as something akin to “and until the end of the war, desolations are determined”, where the phrase “until the end of the war” gives the impression that the fulfillment was completed in the days of the Jewish-Roman Wars. But the Hebrew literally reads: “and until [the] end, war is determined, causing desolations”. In this case, the prophecy is saying that for the period of time from the second destruction of Jerusalem until the end of the 70th “seven”, Israel and Jerusalem would be subject to military tension, preventing Israelites from returning to the land in numbers significant enough to regain full control of it. This has indeed been fulfilled with the dozens of riots, revolts, battles, sieges, attacks, captures, and/or recaptures of Jerusalem that have occurred since A.D. 70. {“Jerusalem Besieged: From Ancient Canaan to Modern Israel”. Cline, Eric H. 2004. Ann Arbor, MI: The University of Michigan Press. 9-10.} So the fact that Modern Israel currently possesses much of Jerusalem (one notable exception being the Temple Mount, other than the Western Wall), but not all the land covered by Ancient Israel (although I personally doubt {scroll to the second paragraph above “A Quick Exercise”, to the part discussing Zephaniah 2:4} they’ll possess all of it until Jesus returns; only time will tell, especially in light of the current political situation in the Middle East!), suggests that we’re relatively close to “the end”! (Of course, by “relatively close”, I mean relative to the entire length of time between A.D. 70 and the start of the 70th “seven”, which has so far been almost 1,955 years.)

Indeed, I show in my book that because each of the 70 “sevens” is tied to a sabbatical cycle, and the final year of the 70th “seven” must be a Jubilee year, and the first year of the 1st “seven” must have immediately followed a Jubilee year, this means that the last year of the 69th “seven” must end 8 years short of the end of a Jubilee cycle, and the first year of the 70th “seven” must begin 8 years short of the end of a Jubilee cycle; therefore, the last year of the 69th “seven” and the first year of the 70th “seven” must have an exact multiple of 50 (Jewish) years between them. {HIDMF p. 680, 744} I further show that Hosea 5:14-6:3 prophesied a period of 2,000 years from when Jesus announced the beginning of its fulfillment at the Feast of Tabernacles in A.D. 29 (John 7:32-36) to when the Two Witnesses show up at the third tabernacle/temple (Revelation 11:1-3; note that verse 2 indicates that most of the Temple Mount will be under the control of pagan nations at that time, meaning this can’t be the second temple destroyed in A.D. 70 or the temple described in Ezekiel 40-48, since the Temple Mount was/will be fully controlled by the nation of Israel for both of those–that this goes for the latter is shown in Ezekiel 44:9 & 48:19), opening up the path for Israel to repent on the national level (Deuteronomy 30, Malachi 4). {HIDMF p. 729 Fn 1273, 760} I therefore predict that we’ll see two people in Jerusalem satisfying the description of Revelation 11:5-6 (literally, of course) starting in the autumn of A.D. 2029. {HIDMF p. 723, 759-760}

If that prediction of mine comes to pass, I’ll be willing to help Pulliam and those in his congregation “collect oil for their lamps” before it’s too late for them to do so (Matthew 25:1-13). {HIDMF p. 723} As harsh as I’ve been to Pulliam in this blog series, I still want the best for the members of his congregation, and am willing to extend mercy to those who show genuine repentance. (Indeed, I’m generally so willing to give second chances that my sister has claimed that I set myself up for people to take advantage of me!)

But in the meantime, what we have in Lesson 16 of “In the Days of Those Kings” is yet another blunder that Pulliam could’ve avoided just by checking the text in the original language. (If you want to avoid making such mistakes, I recommend utilizing the Interlinear functionality at Blue Letter Bible on proof-texts for any claim. There are more steps to the investigation process than that of course, but I recommend doing this one first: in my experience, around 80-90% of false teachings and/or arguments from skeptics about what the Bible supposedly says can be undercut with this step alone.)

Alex O’Connor On Animal Suffering: Ironically Reassuring

Date Modified:

On the night of February 16th, 2025, I read my weekly email from Answers in Genesis, and one of the stories I clicked on was “Twenty-Five Christians vs. One Atheist: Our Response”. As you’re probably guessing from the title of this post, the 1 atheist was Alex O’Connor, who’d gone under my radar until I read that article. I recommend watching Bryan Osborne’s response video, which explains where the Christians involved in the debate were going woefully wrong with their tactics (as the response video said in its title, “This Debate Was PAINFUL to Watch”)–lest you end up making the same mistakes in your confrontations with atheists; being well-versed in worldview apologetics, I was already familiar with most of the things Osborne brought out. But one thing he said particularly jumped out to me {jump to the 12:17 mark of Osborne’s video}: Alex’s claim in an earlier video that the suffering of animals is Christianity’s biggest problem, even bigger than the “Problem of Evil”. Having already included a response to the Problem of Evil at the end of Appendix A and a discussion about animal death before the fall in Chapter 16 of my upcoming book, I was curious to see if Alex had anything to bring up that I hadn’t considered. Plus, a comment on Osborne’s video by a “robinfeatherhead” brought out a major point Alex was making in the debate regarding animal suffering that sounded intriguing to me: “alex literally explains why animal suffering is philosophically a bigger problem than human suffering, in the video you’re critiquing. twice. it’s because most of the apologia for suffering is human oriented.” {Lack of capitalization in original.} Curious to see whether robinfeatherhead’s claim has any merit, I watched the entire debate segment on suffering.

Now, lest one point out that Alex was merely saying that animal suffering makes it “less likely” that God exists: this is disingenous, since the debate was clearly billed as “1 Atheist vs 25 Christians”; an Atheist insists there is no God; if his position intended to leave any possibility of God’s existence open, he would claim to be an Agnostic, not an Atheist. Hence, whether God exists (as opposed to whether God likely exists) is the core premise at issue. Nevertheless, Alex explains what he means by “less likely” in response to the first debater’s opening question {jump to the 1:42 mark}:

Of course we don’t know, but that’s why I use the phraseology of ‘unlikely’. I think that if you were to tell somebody who was sort of in some… Roussean state of nature, hadn’t seen the world, and you said that, ‘the world has been created by an omnibenevolent, all-powerful God’, what kind of world would that person be imagining? And if you dropped them into the world, if you- if you gave them the opportunity to become a wild animal like, in 2 seconds, I was just gonna turn you into a random wild animal somewhere on planet Earth… I think you would probably kill yourself before I had the opportunity because you know that the life of these animals is almost defined in terms of their suffering. {Emphases his.}

Of course, the Bible tells us that Adam was created in a Roussean state of nature (one “preceding socialization… thus devoid of social traits such as pride, envy, or even fear of others” {click on that last hyperlink}), which went away the instant God started talking to him. But the world Adam experienced just after being created on Day 6 was undoubtedly the kind of world a human would expect of “an omnibenevolent, all-powerful God”–and remained so until the Curse. This is the crucial part of the equation that Alex (and for that matter, everyone who promotes the Problem of Evil, the Epicurean Paradox, or whatever you want to call it, as a serious problem for theistic religions in general or Christianity in particular) CONSISTENTLY IGNORES, even in the earlier video (seriously, look up any flowchart diagram explaining the Epicurean Paradox; the whole problem is always phrased and presented in such a way that the Fall of Man and resultant Curse are totally left out of the discussion–meaning the questioners are ignoring the answer to their own question every time they ask it!). Well, except when someone finally brought it up at almost the end of that segment (which I’ll quote below; also, I suspect the first speaker was about to get to it when he was interrupted! {jump to the 2:58 mark}).

And lest Alex add that this information comes from Scripture, and thus requires the argument to import additional assumptions (namely, that the Biblical account of the Fall of Man is true), he goes on to tacitly admit that his own view relies on importing additional assumptions as well:

Hayden: “Would you say that theism or atheism better account for the idea that suffering exists and a purpose for it?”
Alex: “Depends exactly what you mean, uh, because of course, you might say that the world itself is more expected on theism, and since suffering, you know needs the existence of the world, then it’s theism. But, granted the existence of a material world, let’s say, I think atheism.” (boldface mine)

In the debate video, he states his position that “Suffering makes God’s existence unlikely.” {jump to the 0:28 mark}, lays out the theistic evolutionism scenario (which, I agree, would require God to be an incompetent bungler, a sadistic ogre, or both), and then concludes, “I think that that’s less likely on theism. If you assume atheism or materialism not only do you explain this, you also come to expect it.” {Jump to the 1:27 mark} He also admits: “I’ll tell you what I’m assuming here. What I’m assuming here is that God would- a good God would not allow unnecessary suffering to attain” {jump to the 7:45 mark}, but goes on to clarify “So perhaps I should say, unjustified instead of unnecessary” {jump to the 8:08 mark}–making my job easier!

And of greatest relevance to my discussion in this post is that he points out that “Christianity has a celebrated tradition of theodicies, trying to explain why something exists. Human free will, the development of the soul, higher order good, all of this kind of stuff–none of which apply to the suffering of non-human animals.” {jump to the 3:39 mark} And even near the end of the segment, when someone finally said: “Well, could you say that the result of why we suffer is because of Fall of Man?” He answered: “I would say not, ‘cuz I don’t believe in the Fall of Man [As I’ve seen SciManDan say {jump to the 29:50 mark for context}, “Incredulity Alert! Incredulity Alert! Incredulity Alert!”], but I also don’t think that that explains non-human animal suffering. The big thing that I wanna keep pressing is that the theodicies that we talk about, free will, Fall of Man, all of this kind of stuff–I don’t think applies to that deer with its leg caught under the branch that’s dying in confused agony.” {jump to the 17:53 mark} Finally, in a clip from another one of his earlier videos, Alex rehashes the points made in the other video, and then concludes: “At the very least, I think this means we should refuse to grant our scent- our ascent to Christianity, until some form of justification is forthcoming.” {jump to the 3:51 mark}

Challenge Accepted

First off, just because Alex doesn’t believe that the events of Genesis 1-3 are historically factual, doesn’t falsify them. In fact, it’s foul play for Alex to not accept the Fall of Man (even if just for the sake of argument) when letting a Christian try to make their case, because the Fall of Man is a core component of what the Bible teaches. As it’s well been said, you won’t have reason to accept the Good News (the Gospel Message, including that salvation has become available) unless you’re already aware of the Bad News (the Fall of Man and our subsequent continuance in sin, bringing about the death sentence that we need to be saved from–although the former acts on its own in cases like the newborn baby dying of cancer that Alex brings up as a counterexample to one of his opponents’ arguments {jump to the 6:45 mark}; as a result, that baby will end up in the New Heavens & New Earth, since they’d have no sins for God to judge). To borrow the terminology from Ken Ham’s book “Why Won’t They Listen?” {2002. Green Forest, AR: Master Books. 30.}, Alex is trying to make a Christian defend the Power and Hope of the Gospel, without granting them the Foundational Knowledge for the Gospel as a starting premise. That would amount to defending a “Biblical Worldview” that isn’t truly Biblical. So it’s really no wonder his opponents in that debate failed so miserably; they weren’t defending Biblical Christianity! To paraphrase Charles Spurgeon: God’s Word is like a lion; let it out of the cage you’ve put it in, and it will defend itself.

Second, the reason he can claim that “evolution” lines up with reality is because of a classic equivocation fallacy among evolutionists: (Micro)evolution is observed; therefore, (macro)evolution is real. Alex constantly brings up the reality of “natural selection”, overlooking the fact that this process only works with the genetic information already present, and so has only ever been observed to result in microevolution (variations within a kind). At most, some species within a Biblical kind occasionally give rise to a new species of that same kind, but there are also genetic boundaries that can’t be crossed to allow members of one kind to have offspring of a different kind {scroll to the second blockquote under “Scientific Misconduct?”; the full peer-reviewed technical paper being quoted from is freely available to read here}; even evolutionist David S. Thaler, who co-authored a peer-reviewed paper confirming this reality (and I mean “confirming” quite literally; the former peer-reviewed paper was published before the latter–2016 versus 2018!), concluded that “If individuals are stars, then species are galaxies[.] They are compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space”. In contrast, macroevolution requires the ability for one kind to give rise to another kind (e.g., a kind of sea creature giving rise to a kind of terrestrial quadruped, as implied by the “Darwin Fish” symbol), which would require members to be able to cross “the vastness of empty sequence space” from one “compact cluster” to another (or more accurately, start their own isolated cluster). So why don’t we observe any individuals (let alone small sets of individuals in the process of starting up their own cluster) in between the clusters, when macroevolutionary models would have us expect plenty of them?

So here’s the Young-Earth Creationist view (technically known as the “Created Heterozygosity & Natural Processes [CHNP] Model”) that explains what we observe in nature: God imbued the capacity for most of this variation in the DNA of these creatures’ ancestors during the Creation Week (so they’d be able to fill every biome the earth would ever have); subsequently made some modifications at the time of the Curse to enable creatures to defend themselves from predation in a fallen world, thus giving rise to most of the violence and suffering we see in nature (e.g., Genesis 3:18 specifically mentions spinose structures arising from the Curse, and these structures are modified forms of plant parts that would’ve already existed); and has since allowed mutations to degrade the DNA further, sometimes even to the point of extinction (as we’ve recently been seeing with the Tasmanian devil), under the Curse.

Now for the actual explanation. If you want to show that your opponent’s position yields a problem (i.e., a “proof by contradiction”), then you need to assume all of your opponent’s premises (in order to make sure that none of those premises counter the argument you’re making); so attempts to show that the Biblical worldview contradicts itself (and/or reality) would require you to assume all the Bible’s premises in the process for the sake of argument–including the Fall of Man and resultant Curse. So-called “natural evil” (natural disasters, such as tornados) is also a result of the Curse; whenever Alex brings up that poor deer that died because its leg got trapped when a tree fell on it (a complete lack of human involvement is implied), that fits into this category. Why did natural disasters come into existence after the Fall of Man? Because God originally gave humans the whole world and the other creatures living in it as their dominion (Genesis 1:28). This is the key to the whole puzzle. Once Adam sinned, his whole dominion started being tainted by it; in fact, that dominion shifted from being ruled by humanity to being ruled by Satan (Hebrews 2:6-8 speaks of humanity not presently being in the position of authority they were created for — note all the past-tense verbs in verses 7 & 8a — and 2 Corinthians 4:4b refers to Satan as “the god of the age, of this one”–my word-for-word translation of the Greek phrase, ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου). This is the source of all the gratuitous, needless, and/or unnecessary suffering in the world (although claiming it’s unjustified would ignore the explanation I’m giving right now). Paul went so far as to explain that “the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now” (Romans 8:22c KJV); the Greek word for “creation” isn’t kosmos (world order/system), but ktisis (a thing created). This is why the effects of the Curse can be seen everywhere, even in things as remote from us as stars exploding in outer space (which are definitely part of the “creation”, per Genesis 1:16c). In fact, Luke 8:27-31 shows that even fallen angels fear torment and suffering, and Jesus permitted those particular demons to possess some pigs and drown them in verses 32-33. In light of all this, why would we expect animals to be exempted from these things when nothing else in all creation (sentient or non-sentient) is?

So there you have it: a straightforward justification for why animals suffer (gratuitously or otherwise) in a world initially created by an omnibenevolent God (but subsequently cursed by man’s sin).

Not only was the logic simple and straightforward enough for me to explain it in just one paragraph, but also note that I started off by exposing the ruse in his “I don’t believe in the Fall of Man” rebuttal, giving me the opportunity to expound the Biblical position (with the Fall of Man as a premise) and show that it’s coherent after all. The fact that none of the Christians in the debate could do this is just another demonstration of a point that I’ve been driving home for two decades now: these kinds of tough questions do have solid Biblical answers; but once you forfeit the straightforward understanding of the opening chapters of Genesis, the answers completely fall apart. Skeptics have understood this and used it to their advantage for over 200 years, just as Alex did here; the Christians in this debate fell for it, hook-line-and-sinker.

And just like the old-earth geologists who gave the skeptics their first dose of “intellectual fulfillment”1 200 years ago, Alex is relying on the assumption of uniformitarianism: that what we see in the present is representative of how (and how quickly) things always operated in the past. But in doing so, they’re ignoring a basic tenet of forensics (which is a historical science, the realm in which the creation-evolution debate operates): anyone who’s watched a detective show would know that the significance of a piece of evidence can drastically change in light of eyewitness testimony. In this case, uniformitarianists are ignoring the eyewitness testimony of the Bible. In fact, the founders of uniformitarian geology were deliberately doing so: Charles Lyell, arguably the biggest public proponent of uniformitarian geology in the early 19th century, mentioned in a letter to Poulett Scrope, who was about to review the first volume of Lyell’s watershed work “Principles of Geology”, that he hoped Scrope’s review, which would be published in a literary & political periodical called the Quarterly Review (intended to counter the Edinburgh Review’s influence on public opinion, no less; do not underestimate the sway the Quarterly Review held in the 19th century!), would be “what will free the science from Moses”.

Moreover, God still upholds the universe benevolently enough for us to catch glimpses of what He wanted for us all along. I’ve seen someone point out (I’m having trouble recollecting who) that God could’ve arranged the universe to make our situation even more miserable. He could’ve made all food taste bland, He could’ve made it painful for even a perfectly healthy person to eat anything, etc. If these things and more were the case, we could very easily conclude that our creator isn’t loving at all! The fact that there’s still some good in this creation not only tells us that God is loving and benevolent (so much for that “Evil God Hypothesis” Alex brings up during the debate, which aims to show that such arguments are arbitrary!), but it helps us look forward to the time when the Curse will be removed. I’m reminded of the fact that the Grand Canyon was carved from the waters of the Flood retreating off of the American continent; yet my late uncle (who was an agnostic, by the way) once told me, “I’ve been to 14 countries, and the Grand Canyon is the only thing I’ve seen that took my breath away.” Given how beautiful our world still is after it’s been devastated, how much more beautiful must it have been in pristine condition–and by implication, how much more beautiful will it be once it’s restored?

My Take On Animal Death And Predation Before, During, And After The Curse

Now, why do I call Alex’s take on animal suffering “ironically reassuring”? Because in that earlier video Osborne showed the thumbnail for, Alex actually brought up some things that I considered while writing the forementioned discussion in Chapter 16 of my upcoming book, but couldn’t really squeeze into it without wrecking my meticulous formatting. So now that I have a blog that doesn’t have such restrictions, I’d like to address these points a little more fully here. I’ll give you the background to appreciate where I’m going with this by giving you the discussion from Chapter 16 of my upcoming book, Footnotes and all.


Speaking of spiritual growth, I’ve heard it said that if you’re studying the Bible properly, it should make you feel uncomfortable sometimes. This tends to happen to me when I come across a passage pertaining to a sin I’m struggling with at the time, just like it should for everyone else. But in my case, this can also happen when an apologetics argument I’ve grown so used to utilizing with good results is exposed as faulty upon closer inspection. This rarely happens with me anymore because I’m generally aware of so many alternative arguments that can be utilized to prove the same point, that I can afford to ditch the ones that are trash. But once in a blue moon, I do struggle with letting some go. For example, early on when typing Appendix A of this work, I presented the following pair of arguments against compromising evangelical positions:

If death was around before Adam sinned, then a legion of theological problems arise later on in the Bible. I’ll only focus on two of them here. First (and arguably most importantly), the Bible tells us that “the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23c KJV) “For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive… The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” (1 Corinthians 15:21-22, 26 KJV) These passages indicate that death is an intrusion into the universe that entered it as a result of Adam’s sin, and Jesus died to save us from the eternal consequences of death and make it possible for us to live in a deathless world in the future. But if death has always been a part of the universe, even before Adam sinned, then how can death be considered an intrusion into the universe that resulted from Adam’s sin? What was the point of Jesus’ sacrifice? Second, it’s quite clear from reading the opening and closing chapters of the Bible (Genesis 1-3 and Revelation 21-22) that the universe will be restored to the level of perfection it had when it was originally created. So if the Old Heavens and Old Earth (the current universe) were created with death, then wouldn’t that mean there will be death in the New Heavens and New Earth as well? If death existed before Adam, the ideas of salvation and redemption make absolutely no sense. Compromising evangelicals directly undermine the very gospel message they’re supposed to preach to others (Mark 16:15)!

However, it was brought to my attention in October of 2023 that these arguments can only be legitimately applied to human death, in light of another passage that’s often used when making these arguments, Romans 5. “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that [literally “men, on the basis that“; epi with a dative-case pronoun] all have sinned” (Romans 5:12 KJV, emphases added). The claim, as it pertains to this argument against compromising evangelicals, is that the phrase “sin entered into the world, and death by sin” implies that neither humans nor animals were susceptible to death until Adam sinned. However, just a few sentences later, Paul made it clear that he was talking about sin and death for humans specifically:

(…But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Romans 5:15-19 KJV, emphases added)

Animals are wholly incapable of sin, so they obviously aren’t under consideration in this passage. In fact, this interpretation fully comports with another (valid) argument Biblical creationists use against the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe: Jesus became human in order to save sinful humans (Hebrews 2:9-11,14-18). So in order to save sinful Klingons, Jesus would’ve had to become a Klingon; to save sinful Ewoks, Jesus would’ve had to become an Ewok; and so on and so forth. So the fact that Jesus became a human and no other kind of creature (and indeed, is still human to this day) implies that humans are the only organic creatures that have sins in need of forgiveness!

You might claim this logic doesn’t work because fallen angels will be destroyed at the end of the Millennial Kingdom for their sins, but the crucial distinction between humans and angels on this front is clarified among the verses I just cited from Hebrews: angels (fallen or otherwise) don’t have flesh and blood, and certainly aren’t organic creatures.

Seeing then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death — that is, the devil — and might deliver those, whoever, with [literally, “those, as many as by“] fear of death, throughout all their life, were subjects of bondage, for, doubtless, of messengers it [fear of death] doth not lay hold, but of seed of Abraham it layeth hold772 (Hebrews 2:14-16 YLT, emphases added)

Also note that the verbs for “lay(eth) hold” are in the present tense. Death is an ongoing fear for humans (however strong or weak that fear may be in the moment; as good as we may get at ignoring this fear, death can still happen at any time), but not for angels. Satan (and undoubtedly, every other individual demon by now) knows when he’s going to perish (thanks to the doctrine of chiliasm, which I’ll discuss in Appendix D), but no individual human knows when they will. As a result, demons can do their thing unhindered by fear of death, because they know they’ll perish no sooner than the time God has decided for Satan himself. In contrast, every living human has the potential to die at any time before the first resurrection; this basic fact about life and death, even when crammed away at the backs of our minds, influences how we live our lives in a way demons don’t have to deal with themselves — and there’s no doubt the demons take advantage of this as much as they can.

But as far as we can tell, the potential to live forever is something animals simply don’t think about. As image-bearers of an eternal God, humans (unlike animals) have considerations about eternity. This is circumstantial evidence that God didn’t necessarily intend for animals to live for eternity. More solid support for this idea can be found in the opening chapters of Genesis, if you pay careful attention (bear in mind that the words for “earth” in these passages773 primarily meant “land” or “ground”):

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish [which meant “make replete” (i.e., “fill to completion”) in archaic English] the earth [or “land”], and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth [or “ground”].
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth [or “land”], and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat [food in general, in archaic English]. And to every beast of the earth [or “land”], and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life [literally, “wherein is a soul that is alive”], I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.…
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground [Hebrew ‘adamah, meaning “soil” or “dirt” — see page 43 back in Chapter 4; Greek , the same word for “earth” in the LXX of the verses just quoted] made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst [properly, “middle”] of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:…
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also [or “again”, or “more”] of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground [Hebrew ‘adamah, Greek ] from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. (Genesis 1:28-30; 2:8-10; 3:14,22-24 KJV, underlining and emphases added)

For the longest time, I never noticed that sea creatures are mentioned in Genesis 1:28, but not in 1:30 or 3:14! Evidently, sea creatures weren’t originally intended to be vegetarian like humans or land-dwelling and/or flying animals were (which would make sense since marine ecosystems are far more dependent on carnivory than terrestrial ones, given how scarce vegetation sources are in the oceans; then again, that assumes this was also the case in the pre-Flood ocean). I can’t remember seeing any occasion where a Biblical creationist has brought up this point, probably because they’re scared of its implications for their preconceived notions about death before the Fall and aren’t ready to relinquish this argument against compromising evangelical views that has come to be perceived as a kind of “slam-dunk”. However, after thinking it over for about a week, I came to the conclusion that the theological implications aren’t really as drastic as the typical creationist might think.

For example, they can still cogently argue that land-dwelling and/or flying animals (note the phrase “wherein is a soul that is alive” and recall the Biblical definition of “living creature” I laid out in Chapter 6) were vegetarian before the Fall (after all, creatures that aren’t living souls — e.g., bacteria — would’ve still been able to “eat” sea creatures that died in order to decompose them and make room for more sea creatures, if any sea creatures did somehow “die of old age” before Adam sinned) — which still poses a significant problem for Old-Earthers who accept the fossil record as pre-dating Adam, since we have plenty of fossil evidence for land animals eating each other in the geologic column!774 Also, while it’s safe to assume that the extinction and genetic entropy that all creatures are susceptible to now wouldn’t have applied to sea creatures before the Curse (just as they wouldn’t have for any other creatures), the absence of sea creatures in Genesis 3:14 would merely imply that land creatures would bear the brunt of the Curse’s effects (e.g., being subject to predation and death when they weren’t before).

Genesis 3:22-24 makes it clear that there were no trees of life outside the Garden of Eden, let alone on any shores of the pre-Flood ocean (Genesis 1:9). While Genesis 2 mentions that there was a river that watered the Garden of Eden (presumably including the tree of life), we have no guarantee that the tree of life would’ve been close enough to said river for its fruit or leaves to fall off and make their way down any of the 4 rivers branching off from it to the pre-Flood ocean for sea creatures to eat them — and that’s assuming the pre-Flood hydrologic cycle was similar enough to the modern one for the rivers to make it all the way to the ocean, and that no land animals ate them before they made it to the ocean! Quite simply, any model involving pre-Flood sea creatures having access to fruit or leaves from the tree of life (the only thing mentioned in Scripture as a means for organic creatures to undo aging and live indefinitely) is going to require some sketchy assumptions. In any case, the cherubim and flaming sword would’ve ensured that any animals still in the Garden after Adam & Eve’s banishment couldn’t have accessed the tree of life — regardless of what type of animals they were!

So, let’s address the strongest Biblical objection remaining against this possibility that some living creatures were eating other living creatures before the Fall: How would a creation where this is the case qualify as “very good”? For the same reason the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was “good” (as discussed back in Chapter 6): because it served a purpose. This predator-prey dynamic enabled God’s creation to sustain itself, by preventing the oceans from eventually becoming glutted with creatures to the point where it was no longer good! The only other relevant question I can think of is “Did any animals eaten by other animals suffer before the Fall?” As far as I’m aware (although I could be overlooking something), the Bible doesn’t answer this question. However, it’s safe to assume that since the New Heavens & New Earth will be Curse-free, suffering will operate the same as it did before Adam sinned. And like it or not, Ezekiel’s description of the Messiah’s Kingdom and its temple makes it over-abundantly clear that some animals will be killed and consumed by humans in the New Heavens & New Earth:

And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.… And the four tables were of hewn stone for the burnt offering, of a cubit and an half long, and a cubit and an half broad, and one cubit high: whereupon also they laid the instruments wherewith they slew the burnt offering and the sacrifice. And within were hooks, an hand broad, fastened round about: and upon the tables was the flesh of the offering.
Then said he unto me, The north chambers and the south chambers, which are before the separate place, they be holy chambers, where the priests that approach unto the LORD shall eat the most holy things: there shall they lay the most holy things, and the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; for the place is holy.…
And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon. And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord GOD, a young bullock for a sin offering. And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it. Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary. And on the second day thou shalt offer a kid of the goats without blemish for a sin offering; and they shall cleanse the altar, as they did cleanse it with the bullock. When thou hast made an end of cleansing it, thou shalt offer a young bullock without blemish, and a ram out of the flock without blemish. And thou shalt offer them before the LORD, and the priests shall cast salt upon them, and they shall offer them up for a burnt offering unto the LORD. Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish. Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves. And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.
And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.… But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:… And in the day that he goeth into the sanctuary, unto the inner court, to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering, saith the Lord GOD.… They shall eat the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; and every dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs.…
This is the oblation that ye shall offer; the sixth part of an ephah of an homer of wheat, and ye shall give the sixth part of an ephah of an homer of barley: Concerning the ordinance of oil, the bath of oil, ye shall offer the tenth part of a bath out of the cor, which is an homer of ten baths; for ten baths are an homer: And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD. All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel. And it shall be the prince’s part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.
In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering. And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the LORD, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering. And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah.
In the seventh month, in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil.…
And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.… And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish. And the meat offering shall be an ephah for a ram, and the meat offering for the lambs as he shall be able to give, and an hin of oil to an ephah. And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish. And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.…
Thou shalt daily prepare a burnt offering unto the LORD of a lamb of the first year without blemish: thou shalt prepare it every morning. And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a meat offering continually by a perpetual ordinance unto the LORD. Thus shall they prepare the lamb, and the meat offering, and the oil, every morning for a continual burnt offering.
Then said he unto me, This is the place where the priests shall boil the trespass offering and the sin offering, where they shall bake the meat offering; that they bear them not out into the utter court, to sanctify the people. (Ezekiel 40:39,42-43; 42:13; 43:18-27; 44:10-11,15,27,29; 45:13-25; 46:2,4-7,13-15,20 KJV, emphases added)

Fish even come in for a special mention:

Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed. And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh. And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many. (Ezekiel 47:8-10 KJV, emphasis added)

The sheer amount of details in Ezekiel 40-48 (go ahead and read it; I left out a lot!) render it impossible that these descriptions were merely symbolic. And lest one suggest that this was referring to the Jerusalem of the Second Temple Period, Ezekiel finishes off his description by letting us know the God of Israel would dwell at the Jerusalem he was describing for the rest of eternity: “and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.” (Ezekiel 48:35c KJV) Also note the lack of instructions regarding the Day of Atonement, implying that it won’t be observed in the days of this temple; this shows that the sacrifices here aren’t being made under the Mosaic Covenant!

So if all else fails, after Jesus returns, we can just scientifically investigate whether the fish caught by those fishers suffer when they die. (I’ll explain in Appendix C that conducting science is a part of the Dominion Mandate, which we’ll finally be able to fulfill to our full potential in the New Heavens & New Earth!) It’ll be safe to assume the answer we acquire at that future time will be the same as it would’ve been before the Curse. Unless Jesus lets us know otherwise, of course.

In the meantime, creation scientists really ought to think about what I’ve said here. As I’ll explain in Appendix B, one reason creation science has been exploding with new models, insights, and explanations over the last several decades while evolutionary research has been comparatively stagnant is because creationists are willing to investigate ideas that evolutionists don’t even consider due to their worldview blinding them to those possibilities. So I’d like to conclude this discussion by warning creation scientists not to fall into that same trap by building their models around sacred cows that ultimately have no Scriptural basis. The Biblical passages I’ve gone over for the last 6 pages are helpful for correcting our preconceived notions about the extent to which death was in operation before the Fall, and for avoiding the use of arguments that are ultimately rooted in faulty exegesis.

772 Verse 16 trips up most English translators, undoubtedly due to the level of nuance involved in interpreting the verb for “lay(eth) hold”, ἐπιλαμβάνεται, which is the present, middle, indicative, 3rd-person, singular form of ἐπιλαμβάνομαι (epilambanomai, pronounced ep-ee-lahm-BAHN-o-mai; Strong’s Number G1949), meaning to “take hold” or “seize”. The renderings seen in most English translations, “give help to”, “help”, “is concerned with”, etc., won’t work, since they’d require the verb to be in the active voice (it’s in the middle voice) and for “messengers” & “seed” to be in the dative case, implying “to” (they’re in the genitive case, implying “of”). The KJV rendering “took on him[self] the nature of” (used in a handful of other translations) won’t work, since that would require the verb to be aorist indicative to indicate a past action (it’s present indicative, indicating a present and continuous action). Young was on the right track by taking the subject of the verb to be “fear of death” (from verse 15), instead of “he [Jesus]” (from verse 14), as suggested by his use of “it” rather than “he” in verse 16 — every translation of this verse on Bible Gateway (Hebrews 2:16 <www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews%202:16> Bible Gateway. Accessed October 20, 2023.) except Young’s Literal Translation takes “he” (Jesus) as the subject of this verb; but Young could’ve made the middle voice of the verb a bit more explicit. Rendering these two instances of ἐπιλαμβάνεται as “seize(s) to itself” satisfies all the grammatical requirements. Ultimately, the sense of verse 16 is as follows: fear of death doesn’t seize angels to itself, but that fear does seize the children of Abraham to itself.

773 Hebrew אֶרֶץ (‘erets; Strong’s Number H776); Greek γῆ (; Strong’s Number G1093).

774 For a small handful of examples of fossil evidence of carnivory and even cannibalism on the part of Tyrannosaurus rex specifically, see the following article and sources cited therein: Clarey, T. Tyrannosaurus rex: Scavenger or Predator? Acts & Facts. 42(11):13. Available at <www.icr.org/article/tyrannosaurus-rex-scavenger-or-predator>.


{HIDMF, p. 486-493. Italics, boldface, underlining, and content in brackets in original.}

Oh, and since the distinction between which creatures are versus aren’t “living souls” (and thus, which ones can “die” in a sense relevant to this discussion) is crucial to understanding the foregoing, I conclude in Chapter 6 that “living souls” are “members of kinds that have blood and can move voluntarily in at least one stage of development” {Ibid. p. 109. Italics in original.}.

As you may have noticed, there were a few questions I glossed over in that discussion: (1) how the land wouldn’t have become glutted with animals if Adam hadn’t sinned (after all, the creation had to be set up in a way that accounted for that possibility, even though it wasn’t realized!), (2) whether sea creatures eaten by other sea creatures before the Fall suffered while dying, and (3) how the animals being sacrificed in the New Heavens & New Earth won’t qualify as “unnecessary” bloodshed. I’ve already published a discussion regarding the third here, but have an additional point or two to bring out about it here. But the ironic thing is that Alex’s video on “Christianity’s Biggest Problem” jogged my memory on some viable responses I’ve seen to the first two points!

The first point is helped by Alex, who said the following {jump to the 8:55 mark}:

And besides, granting that God does need to balance an ecosystem, predation is not the only way to do it. God could have, for example, limited the number of times an animal can reproduce, as a way of preventing overpopulation. A form of cosmic contraception. [Brief pause] There’s definitely a joke about a condom brand in there, somewhere.

(I just couldn’t resist retaining that last part.) But whether Alex knows it or not, ICR founder Dr. Henry Morris suggested essentially this same possibility in a study note for Genesis 3:18:

These systems and processes [the malevolent biological structures and mechanisms resulting from the Curse] now maintain a balance of nature and so are indirectly beneficial in maintaining life on a cursed earth, even though individual organisms all eventually die. Had the Fall and Curse not taken place, populations would probably have eventually been stabilized at optimum values by divine constraints on the reproductive process. With God’s personal presence withdrawn for a time, however, it is more salutary to maintain order by these indirect constraints associated with the Curse, adding still further to the testimony that the world is now travailing in pain, awaiting its coming Redeemer. {Boldface mine.}

The ecosystem very well could’ve functioned that way before the Curse went into effect. And the fact that an atheist is willing to concede the acceptability of this is very reassuring!

Regarding the second point, Alex hints at what I expect the results to be of that “scientific investigation” in the New Heavens & New Earth {jump to the 9:51 mark}:

I mean, even if predation really is the only way to stabilize an ecosystem, there’s still absolutely no reason why it would need to be so painful and so gruesome. God could provide for these animals an instant death, or at least one that’s less painful. But He doesn’t. He allows that zebra to suffer for minutes, whilst its windpipe is caught in the jaws of a lion. Just imagine for a moment what it must feel like to be that zebra. None of this is necessary for ecosystem stability, if you truly are the omnipotent creator of natural laws. {Emphases his.}

While the zebra being eaten by a lion wasn’t a thing in the pre-Fall world (Genesis 1:30), and will no longer be a thing in the New Heavens & New Earth (Isaiah 11:7, 65:25), this would still be pertinent for sea creatures at both points, in light of the above excerpt from my book. I suspect that the sea creatures eaten by other sea creatures died (and will die) instantly and painlessly. And again, we just saw Morris explain that God allows the excessive gruesomeness of animal suffering as an object lesson to remind us that this world is messed up; it wasn’t meant to be like this. It’s been Cursed, and we should be looking forward to the day when that Curse will be removed.

Which brings me to the third point: would the animals being offered as described in Ezekiel 40-48 suffer and die unnecessarily? Well, remember that Alex clarified that by “unnecessary”, he means “unjustified”. And if there’s a good reason for such sacrifices to be done, then they are justified, by definition. Again, I’ve already given a fuller Biblical exposition of the purpose of animal sacrifices; but for now, I’ll give you a condensed version: animal sacrifices were never intended to take away sins (Hebrews 10:4); rather, they were meant to remind those offering them of the seriousness of their own sins (verse 3) and point to the sacrifice that could take away sins (Jesus’ death on the cross). Whether the latter points forward or backward in time from when the sacrifice is being offered (i.e., whether it’s being offered before or after Jesus’ crucifixion), the purpose is the same. And while the faithful will be perfected upon their resurrection and/or rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-54), yet incapable of reproduction (Matthew 22:30, Mark 12:25), there are plenty of Biblical passages implying that some people in still-mortal bodies capable of reproduction will be permitted to enter Christ’s Kingdom (Isaiah 11:8, 65:20; Matthew 22:1-14; Luke 14:15-24), despite still being in a state of sinfulness (Matthew 22:11-13; Revelation 2:27, 12:5, & 19:15, cf. Psalm 2:9 LXX)–generally because they gave aid to the faithful during the Tribulation (Matthew 25:31-40) and/or were ignorant of the Gospel through no fault of their own. And with the Curse being a thing of the past, these people will no longer experience the kinds of natural, tangible, cumulative, and/or long-term consequences for their sins that we presently experience for ours; so they’re going to need regular reminders of how serious sin is, especially as they produce new generations who never experienced the sin-Cursed world we live in now. The sacrifices described in the closing chapters of Ezekiel are for the sake of these people.

Especially pertinent to the present topic is the fact that the Bible never emphasizes the suffering of the animal being offered as an important feature of blood sacrifices–that is, whether the animal suffers or not is immaterial to whether God will accept the sacrifice; therefore, these sacrifices would be just as acceptable in the New Heavens & New Earth if the offered animals don’t suffer while dying, as they would be if they did suffer. Hence, God making death instant and painless for these animals would in no way diminish the legitimacy of the sacrifices.

Will there ever be a time when such sacrifices will cease? As far as I’m aware, the Bible doesn’t explicitly teach that those who are converted during the Millennium will be perfected at the end of it (thereby rendering such sacrifices unnecessary for the rest of eternity after the Millennium, since no sins will be happening at all anymore); but it doesn’t rule out the possibility, either. We’ll have to wait for additional divine revelation to pin down whether or not this will happen for sure, but Morris’ (and Alex’s) idea about God capping land animals’ reproductive abilities to fix their populations at values that would be optimal for the ecosystem as a whole would certainly be feasible if that does come to pass.

So, there you go: a Biblical stance on death and suffering for animals that’s consistently justified from cover-to-cover, and from the beginning to eternity future. Of course, if I’ve overlooked something, please let me know in the comments!

Now, bear in mind that you’ll never see a response this satisfactory from organizations like Answers in Genesis, because they refuse to take an official position on eschatology (aside from denying full preterism, due to its denial of Jesus’ future return), and therefore can’t use eschatological details as premises without abandoning that commitment. One thing I learned while writing Appendix D of my book is that chronology and eschatology are more important to forming a consistent understanding of the Bible than most apologetics organizations let on. As such, I think they’re depriving themselves (or at least, their readers) by not drawing lines in the sand in these areas (or at least giving ideas for what to look into to facilitate one’s own analysis). Even if they end up presenting or redirecting to the wrong views, at least the points of conflict (even only apparent ones) said views create with the rest of Scripture will wind up better documented and actually presented to their readers, and the issues and nuances that Bible students must reconsider to get to the truth will become more clear.

Indeed, as hinted at near the start of this post, robinfeatherhead pointed out that Osborne doesn’t actually deal with Alex’s core argument here. In contrast, I was able to address his core argument and its auxiliary arguments directly and consistently because I was willing to take a hard stance on eschatology that gave me rigorous Biblical premises to work with–in this case, taking Biblical statements about animals after Jesus’ return at face value to address “what ifs” about the post-Fall (and by implication, pre-Fall) world. On the other hand, those who try to allegorize away such passages even when the context suggests they were meant literally (e.g., amillennialists) wind up getting stuck at some point when trying to address Alex’s arguments; that ought to be a red flag that they should reconsider something.

Conclusion

Finally, I’d like to express some hope for Alex. He has explained that he was raised Catholic, attended Catholic schools, had his faith shaken when he asked basic questions about it, and was later introduced to old-earth evolutionary ideas. Those who’ve read my recollections on this blog {scroll to “Insights From A Local”} of attending CCD and attending St. Louise De Marillac Catholic Church (or who go on to read Chapter 1 of my upcoming book) will recognize the similarity in our backgrounds–even down to the preference for nonfiction over fiction. Our backgrounds sharply diverged in adolescence: my youth minister, Rich Wallick, introduced me to Biblical apologetics through Ham, Wieland, and Sarfati when I was 12; Alex was introduced to “Hitchens, Harris[,] and Dawkins in [his] early teens”. In other words, I received answers to my sincere questions about the Bible, but he didn’t. I went on to devour every apologetics resource I could find (to the point where I rarely come across subject matter I’m not familiar with anymore), and for the last handful of years have been integrating it all into a thoroughly consistent belief system (in contrast to virtually all denominations in Christendom), ever refining it as more insight becomes available. In contrast, Alex wrote at the page linked to at the start of this paragraph that: “I suppose that my abandonment of the pernicious and alarmingly peremptory faith that plagued my upbringing is attributable to two factors: my stern arrogance against the priests and so called ‘educators’ who attempted to justify my helpless indoctrination into their cult, and my immediate family’s less than steadfast religiosity.” He went on to study philosophy and theology, so he’s well-versed in the flaws with “official” religious views; nonetheless, he still seems to be sincerely searching for the truth. In fact, I wholeheartedly sympathize with his remarks about “arrogance against the priests and so called ‘educators’” and “the vile dogma and tenacious authoritarianism which is routinely masked from the average church-goer due to the relentless efforts of scrupulous religious institutions.” I’ve become more vocal against the latter myself in recent years, because it betrays an unwillingness to help sincere questioners by meeting them where they’re at (and often an unwillingness for respondents to refine their views to the point where they can answer such questions); as for the former, I’ve often said that I trust the Bible more than any church that preaches it–it took me years to find a church that was solid enough for me to consider it a “home church”.

In fact, Alex has made statements indicating that he’s still open-minded enough to not completely rule out converting to a religion in the future. For instance, watch this video from the 2:43 to 5:16 marks, paying careful attention starting at 4:38. I think his mention at 4:58 of “the kind of Christianity that I understand” and his mention at 5:14 of “a different kind of Christianity or a different kind of God” are especially insightful, since anyone familiar with what I’m teaching knows that what most of Christendom teaches today actually isn’t what the Bible teaches. Rather, people tend to interpret Scripture in light of their own preconceived notions (particularly assumptions they haven’t thought through, whether imposed on them by instructors, denominations, society, or what have you), rather than letting the Bible interpret itself and seeing where that leads them. In fact, since Alex was raised Catholic, odds are he was baptized before he was old enough to understand the Gospel message; if so, then his baptism isn’t legitimate, he was never really saved, and so he hasn’t really fallen away (you can’t “fall away” from a position you were never in!). I suspect this is why he’s willing to be so much more gracious in his dialogue with believers than his more famous peers: salvation is still on the table for him, so he’s not in a state of full-on hardheartedness toward a God who’s truly left him to stew in his own hatred of Him (2 Peter 2:18-22).

So I invite Alex O’Connor to consider the worldview I present in my upcoming book, which I went out of my way to ensure is 100% contradiction-less from cover to cover. Perhaps he’ll discover Biblical Christianity to be robust enough to warrant further investigation. From one lifelong learner to another: feel free to reach out with your sincere questions.


  1. I’ve co-opted this phrase from a quote by Richard Dawkins regarding what Darwin did for skeptical biologists: “An atheist before Darwin could have said, following Hume: ‘I have no explanation for complex biological design. All I know is that Cod [sic] isn’t a good explanation, so we must wait and hope that somebody comes up with a better one.’ I can’t help feeling that such a position, though logically sound, would have left one feeling pretty unsatisfied, and that although atheism might have been logically tenable before Darwin, Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist.” {“The Blind Watchmaker”. Dawkins, Richard. 1986 (1996 edition). London, England: W. W. Norton & Company. 6. Italics in original. Boldface mine.} What Darwin did for Creation-deniers with biology, Lyell had done for Flood-deniers with geology 3 decades earlier. ↩︎

The Manifestation Of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Which In His Own Times He Will Disclose

Last Modified:

All Part of Satan’s Plan

I’ll grant that this article deals with a tense subject, given how many date-setters for Christ’s return have already been and gone with nothing to show for it but disappointment and mockery in the best cases and suicides {Facebook post; the article cited by the source where I heard about this wasn’t archived} in the worst cases. But ironically, all these previous attempts actually tell us something about Satan’s tactics.

You see, date-setting for Jesus’ return is hardly a modern concept; the Church Fathers and even the Bible itself told us how to determine the year in which Jesus would return: the doctrine of chiliasm (Hebrews 4:1-11; 2 Peter 3:5-8, cf. Genesis 6:3 & Leviticus 25:8-10; Revelation 20:2-7). The earliest attempt I’m aware of to set out a Biblical chronology that could conceivably have been used for this purpose was by Clement of Alexandria, who used a mixture of the Septuagint and secular sources to determine how much time had passed from Adam to the death of the Roman emperor Commodus (which occurred on December 31, A.D. 192): “from Adam to the death of Commodus, five thousand seven hundred and eighty-four years, two months, twelve days.” {Clement of Alexandria. “Stromata”. Book I, Chapter 21.} Feeding this figure into the doctrine of chiliasm would’ve implied that the year in which Jesus would return would end (6000 years – 5784 years, 2 months, 12 days) = 215 years, 9 months, 17 or 18 days after Commodus’ death–a.k.a. October 18th, A.D. 408 (disregarding the two extra leap days of A.D. 200 & 300, which the Gregorian Calendar wouldn’t have; this would have only been about a month off from Tishri 10 of that year). Of course, as many little mistakes as Clement makes in that chapter, his biggest mistake was following the Septuagint’s numbers for Genesis 5 & 11 (“From Adam to the deluge are comprised two thousand one hundred and forty-eight years, four days. From Shem to Abraham, a thousand two hundred and fifty years.” {Ibid.}); we know with the benefit of hindsight that the Masoretic Text must have the correct numbers (see Endnote 3 of this post). Julius Africanus, who published a five-volume history of the world up until the third year of Eliogabalus (A.D. 221) made the same mistake, placing the creation in the year we would call 5499 B.C.–feeding this into the doctrine of chiliasm would’ve implied that Jesus was to return in A.D. 502.

Of course, most date-setters since have disregarded the doctrine of chiliasm (and understandably so, since it was largely forgotten with the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches promoting amillennialism with an iron fist) in favor of messing around with other numbers in the Bible, or even disregarding the Bible in favor of their own alleged revelation from God. Major examples down through history have included the Protestant Reformation of the 1500s (when some tried to interpret the 1,260 days of Revelation 11 & 12, the 1,290 days of Daniel 12:11, or the 1,335 days of Daniel 12:12 as representing years from the Roman Catholic church’s founding in A.D. 325 until its judgment); the Great Disappointment of 1844 (when William Miller tried to interpret the 2,300 days of Daniel 8:13-14 as referring to the time from when Daniel was given this prophecy until the world would end); the several predictions of the Jehovah’s Witnesses over the last century-and-a-half (1878, 1881, 1914, 1918, 1925, & 1975)1; Jim Jones’ (instigator of the infamous Jonestown mass suicide in 1978) prediction of a nuclear holocaust on July 15, 1967; Edgar C. Whisenant’s book “88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988”; the Y2K scare of the late ’90s (the first of these I personally lived to see the failure of); the late Harold Camping’s well-publicized predictions of a rapture on May 21, 2011 (which fortunately didn’t interrupt my flight back to the U.S. following my grandmother’s funeral 2 days earlier!) and the world being destroyed on October 21, 2011; the Mayan Calendar ending on December 21, 2012; the “four blood moons” of 2014-15; and plenty of people on social media believing that the apocalypse was already beginning in 2020 (okay, I don’t recall seeing anyone explicitly claiming that, but they certainly gave that impression!). In fact, there’s an entire list on Wikipedia for predictions of dates for apocalyptic events!

But if you look at that list and the examples I present here, you may notice a trend they have in common: the closer you get to the 21st century, the more often these predictions were made. I don’t think that’s just a matter of how much documentation has survived of each attempt: I think the demonic forces have actually been ramping up their efforts with encouraging people to set dates. The reason is simple: if there’s one person outside the Godhead who could possibly not have lost track of how long it’s been since Adam’s first sin, it’s Satan. He knows exactly how close we are to the 6000th year since Adam’s first sin; not just because he’s been around since before Adam sinned, but because he knows the Bible inside-out, upside-down and sideways (after all, the better you know the real deal, the better you can be at making convincing counterfeits!). So as we’ve gotten increasingly closer to that time, Satan has raised up an increasing supply of unwitting “boys who cried wolf”, in order to minimize the number of people who will take it seriously when God finally does disclose the date of Jesus’ return!

1 Timothy 6:14-15 — And Attempts to Explain it Away

You see, in my upcoming book I used 1 Timothy 6:14-15 to make the point that Paul said God would disclose the date of Jesus’ return to select wise elders and ministers once the beginning of the apocalypse was close enough in the future {HIDMF, p. 753-754}. The title of this post is the critical phrase, with 3 key words: “manifestation”, “times”, and “disclose”. At a Bible study I pointed out that in the Greek, “manifestation” is singular, “times” is plural, and the verb for “disclose” (G1166) refers to something presented or disclosed to a select person or group of people everywhere else it’s used in the NT; the correct understanding of this passage must cohere with all three of those facts. You can watch a recording of that Bible study at this link {our discussion about this particular passage starts at the 29:39 mark, but feel free to watch the whole thing!}–if you’re wondering why I felt comfortable hogging so much air time, it’s because the pastor and I were two of the only four people present that night (the other two being another elder and his wife); plus, he did tell me when I first started attending his Bible studies to correct him if he gets something wrong! You’ll see that his initial attempt at explaining away what I concluded from the Greek phrasing of this verse — that Paul was referring to multiple future occasions when nations would fall under God’s judgment before Jesus returns — accounts for “times” being plural & “disclose” indicating a subset of people (rather than everyone), but would require “manifestation” to be plural instead of singular.

A week later, the pastor spent an entire Bible study class addressing this passage (I didn’t attend that week, but he told me afterward that he wanted feedback on it–so here it is! Sure, it’s a year late, but I had to set up the website first!). You’ll see that he conceded that the word for “manifestation” here refers to Jesus’ second coming (or, as I would clarify, at least some aspect of it). In fact, he has just about everything right until his claim at the 26:56 mark that Jesus’ second coming is “the day that time, space, world, elements, cease to exist” {for my explanation of the passage he’s alluding to, 2 Peter 3:10-12, see HIDMF p. 731,734-735; or just click here and scroll to item 3 in the list, for now.}. But he completely overlooked the point that the verb for “disclose” rules out this statement from referring to the second coming itself (because everyone will see that!). However, he does spend the last few minutes attempting to address the fact that “times” is plural. The thrust of his argument is summarized in his remark that “in many instances a plural word can be referencing a singular event”. Of course, I never denied that “the manifestation” refers to something singular; but my point was that “times” being plural indicates that the disclosure(s) being referred to would happen over a period of time, rather than at a single point in time (as I mention in my book {HIDMF p. 754}, but admittedly failed to bring up in these Bible studies, the text doesn’t tell us the means by which God would disclose “the manifestation”; this leaves open the possibility that He would disclose it in more than one way, depending on who it’s being disclosed to; e.g., many disclosures could come, not from God talking to them in a dream or vision, but from the Holy Breath guiding them to the “a-ha moments” that enable them to properly interpret the relevant Scriptural passages and piece everything together).

But Doesn’t the Bible Teach That Jesus’ Return Is Imminent?

As an aside, watching both videos will show that he fixates (as amillennialists and pretribulationists alike often do; this guy told me after an earlier Bible study that he’s a “semi-preterist”, which would class him as an amillennialist–after all, have you ever met a preterist who takes the 1,000 years of Revelation 20 literally?) on the use of the phrase “like a thief” to refer to Jesus’ second coming (indeed, the Apostles used this term to direct their original audiences back to the Olivet Discourse — where Jesus himself first used it of his own return — as a foundation for understanding the statements they were quoting it in the course of). As amillennialists and pretribulationists alike point out, this phrase is a simile for being caught totally by surprise. They then use the presence of this phrase in passages about Jesus’ second coming to argue that there will be no signs (of Jesus’ return, for amillennialists; of the rapture, for pretribulationists) to watch for beforehand, so it can happen at any time–WHILE IGNORING statements in the immediate contexts indicating that it won’t be “like a thief” for some people!

If you watch the first video from start to finish, you’ll see that I used his point about the NT comparing Jesus’ second coming to the Flood of Noah’s day as support for my view by pointing out that God gave Noah advanced warning of the exact day the Flood would begin, relatively shortly before it arrived: “For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.” (Genesis 7:4 NKJV, boldface added).2 I went on to point out {jump to the 26:52 mark in the first video} that this ties in with the fact that in all the “no one knows” passages regarding when Jesus would return (Matthew 24:36,42, 25:13, & Mark 13:32,33,35), the word usually rendered “knows” (present-tense) actually means “has perceived” (perfect-tense); if this statement was meant to be a timeless truth, he would’ve used the present tense (as most English translations render it, thereby perpetuating the misunderstanding), so the fact that the perfect tense was used shows that this statement was only meant to sweepingly cover everyone living up until Jesus said it. I also pointed out that Matthew 24:43 (“But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken through.” — ASV) constitutes an “if-then” statement: if believers know the approximate time (note the phrase “in what watch”, a “watch” being a 3-hour shift of a night guard), then they will watch for the signs of his impending parousia (discussed elsewhere in the Olivet Discourse) and not be taken by surprise.

This lines up perfectly with one of the passages quoted in the second video: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:11. Notice that they overlooked the fact that this passage clearly teaches that most will be caught by surprise as if a thief breaks into their house unexpectedly, but some will not be: “for yourselves have known thoroughly that the day of the Lord as a thief in the night doth so come, for when [literally, “whenever”; note that this allows for more than one occasion when people “may say, Peace and safety”] they may say, Peace and surety, then sudden destruction doth stand by them, as the travail doth her who is with child, and they shall not escape; and ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day may catch you as a thief” (1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 YLT, boldface and underlining added). In other words, Paul was admonishing the Christians in Thessalonica to be among those that the day wouldn’t catch as a thief!3 This lines up with my point about Matthew 24:43–not everyone will be caught by surprise; only those who are ignorant of the warnings (whether willfully, or through no fault of their own) and/or haven’t learned the approximate time.

It’s also worth noting the comparison to childbirth, which is also drawn from the Olivet Discourse: after the predictions of Matthew 24:5-7, Jesus said “But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.” (Matthew 24:8 2020 NASB, boldface added) Anyone remotely familiar with childbirth will tell you that a mother doesn’t have her child the instant her birth pains start (as much as she might wish that was the case)! Jesus was saying that the events of verses 5-7 are merely a prelude to the apocalypse (the birth pains are just starting); the events of verses 9-14 would occur in the first half of the apocalypse (the birth pains are coming closer together and becoming harder to bear); the events of verses 15-26 refer to the second half of the apocalypse, the Great Tribulation (when the birth pains are at their most intense because the baby’s almost out); and the events of verses 27-31 occur after the Tribulation, culminating in his parousia (when the birth pains have finally subsided and the mother gets to hold her baby in her arms). And just in case his disciples still didn’t get it somehow, Jesus explicitly said, right after mentioning his parousia and the rapture accompanying it (after all, the Greek text of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 not only portrays the two events as occurring together just like Matthew 24:30-31 does, but identifies them as two components of “the day of the Lord” {I’ll link specifically to the discussion of 2 Thessalonians 2 when my article on all the “Day of the Lord” passages is ready}!), that his parousia would have signs preceding it that Christians can watch for: “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.” (Matthew 24:32-33 KJV, boldface and underlining added)

But the most explicit passage of all in this regard was given by Jesus’ brother, James: “Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming [parousia] of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it, until it receives the early and the late rains. You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming [parousia] of the Lord is at hand [literally, “has neared”; perfect active indicative form of ἐγγίζω (G1448), the verb form of engus (G1451)].” (James 5:7-8 ESV, boldface and underlining added) This is a crystal-clear statement that Jesus’ return (his parousia) will have signs preceding it that can be recognized as such, just as a farmer knows that the harvest won’t arrive until the rainy seasons have been and gone.

A fuller demonstration that the Bible doesn’t teach imminence for the rapture or the second coming, but in fact disproves it for both (since 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 has Jesus’ parousia — the Greek word for “coming” in verse 15 — occurring at the same time as the rapture), is available here.

Does the Plural “Times” Sometimes Refer to a Single Point in Time?

Returning to the second video I linked to, the pastor cites Gerhard Delling’s article on the word for “time” (καιρός, G2540) in the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament {Volume 3, p. 401} (which, of course, was produced by German Protestant theologians, and thus has somewhat of an amillennial bias that we should be conscious of when consulting it) as presenting some passages where the plural form of the word is used with reference to a singular event. It may not have been Delling’s intent, but he opened a door here for Bible students to overlook nuances of the Greek grammar when the implications don’t cohere with their preconceived notions. So I’d like to focus on the examples Delling cited when making his case (Titus 1:3, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Timothy 6:15, & Galatians 6:9) for the rest of this post, since they present an excellent opportunity to showcase how the nuances of the Greek text of a Biblical passage can guide us toward a richer understanding of it. But if anyone else comes up with other aspects of 1 Timothy 6:14-15 that they think challenge my understanding of it, you know I’ll update this post to discuss them!

It’s simple enough to lead off with Galatians 6:9. “And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (KJV, underlining added) Delling simply made a mistake by including this as an example where a plural form of καιρός is used for a singular event, since the form of καιρός being translated as “season” here is καιρῷ, which is dative masculine singular! All the other passages he cited as examples do have plural forms of καιρός, but we’ll see that in all 3 passages, there is a valid reason for the noun to be plural instead of singular–and it does indeed carry the import of more than one moment in time in all 3 cases. Significantly, in all 3 instances, the Greek text has καιροῖς (the dative masculine plural form of καιρός) immediately followed by ἰδίοις, making the full phrase the dative form of “his own times” (where the dative-case preposition to attach to it depends on the context).

“In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;” (Titus 1:2-3 KJV, boldface and underlining added). Note that starting at the 40:27 mark of the second video I linked to above, the pastor followed Delling in interpreting “his word” (λόγον αὐτοῦ) as referring to Jesus, as the word “logos” sometimes does. Indeed, this wouldn’t be the first time chronologically that the NT calls Jesus Logos, since Titus was written after Hebrews (4:12). However, the qualifier “through [literally, “in”] preaching [a noun, not a verb]” makes it clear that “word” was meant in its ordinary sense here (feel free to click here to check the Greek phrasing). So, what Paul was actually referring to — what he said was “committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour” — was the full body of doctrine that God had revealed in the course of the Apostles’ ministry–which, as noted in Endnote 3, wasn’t given all at one time, but over a span of more than 3 decades! Hence, the use of the plural καιροῖς is indeed appropriate in this context.

“Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” (1 Timothy 2:6 KJV, underlining added) Young’s Literal Translation sheds some light on what’s going on here: “who did give himself a ransom for all — the testimony in its own times”. Note that the KJV incorrectly rendered μαρτύριον as a verb (“to be testified”), while Young correctly rendered it as the noun that it is (“testimony”); indeed, the KJV also omitted the definite article before this word! Young’s rendering suggests that the intended meaning was that Jesus’ atonement was a testimony to all his contemporaries as long as they lived. Unfortunately, this understanding clashes with the fact that Paul linked it with when Jesus acted as “a ransom”, in which case “the testimony” should be referred to as “in its own time” (singular; i.e., Jesus’ crucifixion). However, Warner resolves this tension by rendering the verse as follows {scroll to p. 3 in the PDF}: “the one having given Himself a substitute ransom over all, the testimony until [God’s] own appointed times. (1 Timothy 2:6 LGV, boldface and underlining added) Note that Warner inferred the dative-case preposition for the dative-case phrase καιροῖς ἰδίοις to be “until” instead of “in” (the Greek text has no preposition here, so which one to infer is a judgment call on the translator’s part). He also interpreted “his” in “his own appointed times” as referring to the Father rather than the Son; after all, verse 5 (“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” — KJV) mentions “God” distinctly from Jesus–the Greek text for the underlined phrase (εἷς γὰρ θεός εἷς καὶ μεσίτης) contains no definite article, so Sharp’s 5th Rule indicates that the “one God” and “one mediator” are two different persons. And as Delling correctly observed, καιρός was generally used with reference to fixed times (feasts, harvest times, etc.); hence, Warner’s addition of the word “appointed”. Jesus himself had told his disciples just before his ascension that the arrival of his kingdom (Acts 1:6) would be associated with multiple fixed times: “It is not for [literally, “from”; “you” is genitive, not dative] you to know periods of time or appointed times [καιροὺς, the accusative masculine plural form of καιρός] which the Father has set by His own authority” (Acts 1:7c 2020 NASB, underlining and boldface added).

Consistent with this, Hebrews 10:22-39 (which was written before 1 Timothy) talks about believers persevering through those very times {I hope to write a post on Hebrews 10:22-39 at some point, and will give a link to it here when it’s ready}. We can tell that passage is eschatological because:

  1. verse 27 paraphrases Isaiah 26:11c LXX (which occurs in the middle of Isaiah 26, a passage about the apocalypse and the judgment by fire4);
  2. the Greek phrase for “a little while” in verse 37 KJV is μικρὸν ὅσον ὅσον (whose only other Biblical occurrence is in Isaiah 26:20 LXX — rendered “a little season” in the BLXX — referring to the faithful hiding during the Tribulation); and
  3. the rest of verses 37-38 quote from Habakkuk 2:2-4 LXX (the quotation of Habakkuk 2:4a in Hebrews 10:38c agrees with the Septuagint rather than the Masoretic Text), with the phrase “He who is coming” (verse 37b YLT) referring to the Antichrist, as shown by the earlier context of the Habakkuk passage (Habakkuk 1:5-11 LXX; note the sudden shift from plural masculine terms for the Chaldeans and singular neuter terms for their nation in verse 6 to singular masculine terms for the person being talked about in verse 7).

So when Hebrews 10:26-27 warns believers, “For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries” (ESV), the context tells us that the boldfaced warning applies during the Tribulation. In light of all this, it’s completely appropriate for Warner to infer the intended preposition to be “until” in the phrase “a substitute ransom over all, the testimony until [God’s] own appointed times”–repentance will no longer be permitted during the Tribulation (i.e., once the Antichrist shows up), so the offer of “a substitute ransom” is only extended “over all” until the Tribulation. Hence, this understanding of 1 Timothy 2:6c coheres with earlier Biblical teaching and warrants the use of a plural (rather than singular) form of “times”.

Conclusion

Thus, we are left with no exegetical reason to think that 1 Timothy 6:15, the one remaining verse Delling gave where a plural form of καιρός is seemingly used with reference to a singular event, isn’t also using it to connote a time period for something in the context. Whenever the NT writers used a plural form of a word where its singular counterpart would’ve sufficed at first glance, we should investigate why the plural was used instead; there must be a reason why the singular wouldn’t have sufficed for their purposes. As explained earlier, I hold that the intent of the plural “times” with the singular “manifestation” was to indicate that the disclosure(s) of “the manifestation” (in contrast to “the manifestation” itself) would occur over a period of time. It feels appropriate to close this post with Warner’s translation of the passage I quote Young’s Literal Translation of in my book {HIDMF p. 753}:

I charge you before the God who sustains life in all things, and Anointed Jesus, the one who testified over Pontius Pilate the good profession. You are to keep this commandment, unblemished, blamelessly, until the Advent of our Master Jesus Anointed, which [God] will disclose in His own appointed times – the King of kings and Master of masters, the Blessed and Sole Sovereign, who alone holds immortality, housing unapproachable light, whom no man has seen nor is capable of seeing, to whom be honor and age-enduring dominion, Amen! (1 Timothy 6:13-16 LGV, content in brackets in original, boldface mine) {Scroll to p. 10 in the PDF at this hyperlink.}


  1. Many things the Jehovah’s Witnesses still teach about eschatology are rooted in their belief that Daniel 4:16’s mention of “seven times” refers to twice the “1,260 days” of Revelation 11 & 12, which they interpret as 2,520 years from the supposed first destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C. to A.D. 1914. However, not only does mainstream chronology prefer 586 B.C. for the first destruction of Jerusalem, but the chronology in Appendix D of my upcoming book places it in 534 B.C. (assuming Jesus was crucified in A.D. 30; if it turns out that Jesus was crucified in A.D. 33, it would’ve been 531 B.C. instead). So as I mentioned to a friend of mine who’s studying the JW’s doctrines in order to reach out to them, my chronology won’t help them, “unless they’re willing to replace their ‘1914 doctrine’ with a ‘1987 doctrine’!” ↩︎
  2. A similar parallel can be seen in the “120 years” announcement of Genesis 6:3. As I explain in my upcoming book {HIDMF p. 735-736}, Peter claimed that this one statement pinned down the timing of not only the global judgment by water, but also the global judgment by fire (2 Peter 3:5-8). Just as the judgment by water came 120 years (Hebrew שָׁנָה, H8141; derived from a verb meaning “to repeat” or “to duplicate”, implying that the noun’s most basic meaning is “cycle”) after God made this declaration, so the judgment by fire will come 120 Jubilee Cycles (6,000 years) after Adam’s first sin. Yet I’ve only pinned the starting time of the latter down to a 5-hour & 55-minute window {HIDMF, p. 757}, so there will still be a need for watching when the day arrives. Likewise, Noah knew when the 120th year after God made this announcement began (and thus, when the Ark needed to be completely prepared by), but until God’s pronouncement to him in Genesis 7:4 (which would parallel my understanding of the disclosure(s) of 1 Timothy 6:14-15), he didn’t know which day of that year the Flood would begin (and note that the Bible never tells us the time on the 17th day of the 2nd month of that year when “all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened” — Genesis 7:11c ESV). ↩︎
  3. Many preterists like to ask: “Why would Paul have treated the Thessalonians as if they might live to see the Day of the Lord unless it was supposed to be fulfilled in the second destruction of Jerusalem?”, thinking this implies it was guaranteed to happen in their lifetimes. But two statements of Jesus shed light on this issue. First, Mark’s account of the Olivet Discourse shows that at the time Jesus gave it, he himself hadn’t perceived when he would return: “And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known [literally, “has perceived”, as already noted; nevertheless, Young rendered the verb in the perfect tense!] — not even the messengers who are in the heaven, not even the Son — except the Father.” (Mark 13:32 YLT, boldface added); hence, Jesus left open the possibility that he would return in their lifetimes, because he wasn’t yet in a position to honestly deny it (after all, he was so close to accomplishing his atoning work; he couldn’t afford to lie about something now!). Second, he told his disciples that the Holy Breath would guide them into all truth (John 16:13)–implying a journey of learning additional divine revelation over time after Jesus’ ascension. 1 Thessalonians was one of the first epistles Paul wrote, with only Galatians being written earlier, so it would be understandable that Paul believed at that time that Jesus’ return could occur within their lifetimes. Evidently, God allowed Paul to believe this so he would have reason to include instructions for Christians regarding the second coming in his earlier epistles. But by the time Hebrews was written, the doctrine of chiliasm had been revealed to the Apostles {HIDMF p. 725-728}, requiring that Jesus’ return would be a minimum of 450 years or so away (because that’s how many years remained until the 6,000th year since creation, if you follow the chronological information in the Septuagint–as most early Christians did, being able to read Greek, but not Hebrew; we saw above that Clement of Alexandria placed the time only about a century sooner). With the benefit of hindsight, we can appreciate that the correct numbers for Genesis 5 & 11 were the ones in the Masoretic Text, which place Jesus’ crucifixion in the 3,993rd year since creation (so if Jesus was crucified in A.D. 30, then the month of May 2025 — when I published this post — would be a little over halfway through the 5,988th year since creation). In essence, God allowed the Apostles to hold the “possibly within my readers’ lifetimes” assumption just long enough to allow both sets of information to make their way into the written NT for the benefit of those who would need them all those centuries later! ↩︎
  4. We can tell this because the opening phrase of the chapter, “In that day” (verse 1a BLXX) refers back to the phrase “And in that day” in Isaiah 25:9a (BLXX). Which day is that? The one that was summarized in the previous major train of thought (Isaiah 25:8 has the solitary letter פ at the end of it in the Masoretic Text), which contains a statement Paul referenced in 1 Corinthians 15:54c: Paul quotes the phrase as Κατεπόθη ὁ θάνατος εἰς νῖκος (TR, boldface added) – “The Death was swallowed up — to victory” (YLT, boldface added). While the LXX of Isaiah 25:8a has κατέπιεν ὁ θάνατος ἰσχύσας (“The Death which had strength swallowed men up”–seeming to contradict the point Paul was making!), Paul’s phrasing is a legitimate Greek translation of what we see in the Masoretic Text: בִּלַּע הַמָּוֶת לָנֶצַח (“He will have swallowed up the death unto a goal”). This tells us that Paul linked Isaiah 25:8 (and by implication, the following major train of thought, which the petuha-cetuma test tells us doesn’t end until Isaiah 28:13!) with the resurrection of the righteous (which 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 places at the time of Jesus’ parousia)! Also note that verses 20-21 are talking about faithful Israelites surviving the Tribulation by going into hiding: “Go, my people, enter into thy closets, shut thy door, hide thyself for a little season, until the anger of the Lord have passed away. For, behold, the Lord is bringing wrath from his holy place upon the dwellers on the earth: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall not cover her slain.” (Isaiah 26:20-21 BLXX) Indeed, a sermon in the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem (a sermon collection dating to the 600s A.D.) references this very passage when talking about people fleeing from the Antichrist’s wrath; see p. 4 of this PDF. ↩︎

The Eternal Purpose Which He Carried Out

Part 6 of this series

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: God has a way of letting me know what questions to focus on when. I wasn’t expecting this post to so effectively wind up doubling as a Passover/Easter special, yet here we are!

It’s time to discuss what is perhaps Pulliam’s most intimidating argument against God having any plan to give the land back to Israel in the future. You’ll probably figure out why I call it his “most intimidating” if you compare it with many of the arguments I’ve already used to call him out over the course of this series.

We discussed the meaning of the words forever and everlasting in lesson 5. The broad range of duration does not pin down what God had in mind when He promised the land as an everlasting possession; however, the New Testament does clearly answer this question. The New Testament answer centers around the eternal purpose of God.

Ephesians 3:11 speaks of God’s eternal purpose, which Paul clearly affirms was carried out. In stating this, he used an aorist verb (past tense), meaning that it was accomplished at one singular point in time. We best understand an aorist verb in the following way: “The time of action is past. The kind of action is punctiliar. Thus is observed the difference between the imperfect and the aorist. The imperfect indicates continuous action in past time… the aorist indicates finished action in past time…” For the Dispensationalist’s view that the covenant is still being carried out, he needs for Paul to have said that God “is carrying out,” instead of “carried out.” In view of Paul’s choice of words, an honest heart must conclude that working out the eternal wisdom of God in the Abrahamic covenant has already been “carried out.”

Two chapters earlier, Paul referred to the present dispensation as the “fulness of the times,” and that God was “summing up” all things in Christ (Eph 1:9-10). “Summing up” is in the aorist tense. God is not, presently, in the process of “summing up” all things, nor will He do so in a Dispensational Millennium of the future. God has already summed up all things in the sacrifice of Jesus.

{“In the Days of Those Kings: A 24 Lesson Adult Bible Class Study on the Error of Dispensationalism”. Pulliam, Bob. 2015. Houston, TX: Book Pillar Publishing. 65,67. Italics, boldface, and content in parentheses in original. See also source cited therein.}

Hidden Premises & False Dichotomies

My main question is: How does Pulliam know that the ‘eternal purpose’ of Ephesians 3:11 is referring to the Abrahamic covenant? Why not, say, just Christ’s substitutionary atonement? Granted, I suspect he’ll respond to that by just pointing to his chart at the bottom of p. 67:

Sounds pretty feasible, right? This is an example of why I called Pulliam’s hermeneutic “sickeningly allegorical” in my previous post {Scroll to the paragraph just above “Revelation 1:3 — A “Slam Dunk” For Preterists?”. Italics in original.}: it’s so easy for those who don’t know any better to fall for it and be led astray.

The problem with this analogy is that it’s only appropriate if the vehicle (a) is intended to be abandoned, and (b) has completely accomplished its purpose before its abandonment. Pulliam’s argument here assumes both, but proves neither. In fact, premise (a) is disproven by so many passages that my discussion on them is very long-winded, and it’s so easy to disprove premise (b) that I’ll just do it right now. God told Abraham: “I will give to you and to your descendants [literally, “seed”; singular, as Paul points out in Galatians 3:16] after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” (Genesis 17:8 1995 NASB, boldface added) Yet Stephen (Acts 7:5) and the author of Hebrews (11:8-10,13) both plainly state (after the gospel had already begun to spread–and in the case of Hebrews, after Paul wrote Ephesians!) that Abraham never inherited any of the land God promised to give him! Hence, that promise is not yet fulfilled! When I brought this to Pulliam’s attention during that fateful Wednesday night Bible study of his I attended in 2023, he retorted that “Abraham was never meant to inherit the land himself” (emphasis his). But that amounts to claiming that God lied to Abraham when He used the phrasing “to you and to your seed”! And lest Pulliam suggest that Abraham received the land “vicariously” through Christ, you might be able to squeeze that out of the Hebrew phrasing “לך בּזרעך” (to you in/by/through your seed); but the phrasing in Genesis 17:8 is actually “לך וּלזרעך” (to you and to your seed). To reinforce the point, here’s Tim Warner’s response to Church of Christ minister and amillennialist Norm Fields’ attempt to explain this away (which was similar to the straw-grasp I just refuted):

The best that Fields could conjure up was that Abraham was a representative of his own seed, and therefore he personally received the land inheritance in some mystical way when his descendants went into the land under Joshua. Yet, this does not remove the contradiction for Fields, because the promise was to Abraham himself AND (in addition) to his seed.… Fields says Abraham received all the land that was promised to him. Steven and Paul said he did not receive any of it. “Any doctrinal position that requires Scriptural contradictions cannot be the true doctrine of Christ.” {Scroll to p. 2 in the PDF. All-caps and italics in original.}

But the question remains: what was the “eternal purpose” of Ephesians 3:11? Well, it’s noteworthy that on the page just before that remark, Warner gives us his take on the phrase in the course of calling out the dishonest tactics Fields had engaged in at the end of the previous round of their debate:

In response to my answer, Fields gave a series of non-sequitur arguments and false dichotomies which have absolutely nothing to do with my statement. That the church is “God’s eternal purpose,” or that Christ “purchased His church with His own blood,” or that Christ was “foreordained to be our sacrificial lamb from eternity,” have nothing to do with my statement, and are all things I agree with. Fields then writes, “according to Warner, the blood of Christ was limited in its power to accomplish the eternal purpose of God.” That is pure nonsense. Christ’s sacrifice has the power to cleanse every sin of every human being. However God’s plan of restoration (of both man and the creation) is progressive, and occurs in stages over an extended period of time. That in no way limits God’s power. {Ibid. p. 1. Boldface, underlining, and italics in original.}

But to my disappointment, he never actually explained how he reached his conclusions that “the church is ‘God’s eternal purpose’ … [and that this has] nothing to do with my statement [“The Christian’s hope is not heaven, but the return of Christ to reign over the nations upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem, and to renovate this earth as the permanent inheritance of Jesus Christ and all who are in Him.” {p. 1. Italics in original, hyperlink added.}], and [is something] I agree with” elsewhere in the debate. So it looks like I’ll have to work out the logic behind it myself. Fortunately, several of the textbooks I used during my Applied Mathematics studies at Illinois Institute of Technology have already familiarized me with the concept of “the proof of this is left to the reader as an exercise”.

I’ve already shown that Warner’s statement (which I completely agree with–unlike Traditional Dispensationalists, who believe that the Christian’s hope is heaven, and that the rest of Warner’s statement summarizes the hope of Israelites only) is perfectly compatible with other Scriptural passages that Pulliam claims rule out Christ reigning in Jerusalem. I likewise point out in the second-to-last paragraph of this section of another post that: “I agree that individual Israelites will be saved in the present age by embracing Jesus as their Messiah and obeying him accordingly, but why should that rule out a restoration of Israel on the national level?” {Italics in original.} In the same vein as the latter, why should the Church being the “eternal purpose” of Ephesians 3:11 rule out the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Land Promise being still future? How is it not possible for both to be true at once–especially in light of the fact that “the Church” doesn’t refer to Christians only, but to the collective of all the faithful throughout history, including ancient Israelites who died in faith with the fulfillment of that promise as part of their hope for eternity future? Clearly, Warner’s remark about “false dichotomies” applies to Pulliam’s arguments just as much as it does to Fields’.

So now all that remains is to give a rigorous explanation of Ephesians 1:9-10 & 3:9-11, to show the understanding my hermeneutic leads to. (After all, simply saying “the passage isn’t talking about that” isn’t very satisfying if you can’t then demonstrate what the passage is talking about!) So, here goes nothing.

Mystery, Mystery, Mystery

You may have noticed in my citations from Pulliam’s book earlier in this post that I skipped p. 66. That’s because that whole page is occupied by a chart. But ironically, that chart saves me a good amount of work on this exposition, so let’s start with it:

You may be surprised to learn that I agree with most of the points being made in this chart! The main things I disagree with are his labelling of the “Age That Now Is (The Church)” and the “Age to Come (Eternity)”, as if “The Church” refers to a time period–“the Church Age” might be an acceptable label for a time period (I prefer “the Christian Era” because it doesn’t allow hermeneutical gymnastics over the word “church”), but “The Church” on its own is not–and his attempt to sever the Abrahamic Land Promise from the Age to Come. Also, while the instance of “(I Corinthians 10:11)” on the left is a correct citation, the quote labeled “(I Corinthians 10:11)” on the right is actually Ephesians 1:21, which is appropriate enough to link with Ephesians 1:9-10 & 3:9-11.

And when we look more carefully at the fuller contexts of all these passages, we find that they do indeed synthesize into something incredible: for starters, several of these passages are blatantly referring to Jesus’ crucifixion, the resulting atonement, and/or the church!

“Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;” (1 Corinthians 2:6-8 1995 NASB, boldface and underlining added; OT prophecies about the Atonement were written more cryptically than prophecies about the Kingdom so that Satan wouldn’t understand them properly, and end up sealing his own fate by having the demonic forces encourage events that would lead to Jesus’ crucifixion.)

I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places [better, “heavenly dominions”; note in particular how nonsensical Ephesians 2:6 is with “heavenly places“, and how this absurdity vanishes with “heavenly dominions“], far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to [better, “in”] the church {Scroll to “Ephesians 1:20-23”}, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. (Ephesians 1:18-23 1995 NASB, boldface added)

“but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;” (Hebrews 9:26 YLT, boldface added; the LGV renders the word for “full end” as “completion”, and adds a footnote after the phrase “at the completion of the ages” that reads as follows: “In chapter 4, Paul spoke of the Kingdom of Christ (Millennium) as the “seventh day” and “Sabbath,” implying six previous “days” or millennial ages. In Heb. 1:2 & 11:3 he spoke of Christ’s having organized the “ages” (plural). Paul was not indicating that Jesus Christ was crucified at the extreme end of all ages, because that would conflict with his other statements about Christ’s second coming and the Kingdom age being future. Rather, he placed Jesus’ crucifixion at a point in time when one millennial age ended and another began. In fact, Jesus’ ministry and death was at the close of the first four millennial ages.” {Scroll to p. 22 of this PDF.} Warner’s interpretation is bolstered by the Greek word being συντελείᾳ (synteleia; G4930), which also shows up in Matthew 28:20; see the table under “Matthew 28:18” in this post, where I render that noun as “border” and point out that it literally means “together-end”.)

But what about the outliers? Let’s consider 1 Corinthians 10:11 first, since its explanation is distinct from all the others:

“But all these things were happening to them [as] illustrations, and it was written for our warning unto whom came the endings of the ages.” (LGV) {Scroll to p. 18-19 in the PDF; Warner includes a footnote at the end of this verse explaining: “That is, Christians are appointed to see the culmination of God’s promises and threats, since Israel failed (See Heb. 3-4).” Of course, I already covered the relevant points regarding Hebrews 3-4 here.}

As for all the others, you’ll soon see that they’re interconnected in a very deep and profound way. Let’s consider the passage in Colossians next:

24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in [literally, “of”] Christ’s afflictions. 25 Of this church I was made [literally, “became”] a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of [literally, “for you, to make full”] the word of God, 26 that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with [literally, “in”] all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29 For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.
1 For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally [literally, “not in the flesh”] seen my face, 2 that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from [literally, “wealth of”] the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. (Colossians 1:24-2:3 1995 NASB, boldface and underlining added)

This passage identifies the “mystery”, not with Christ’s substitutionary atonement (as seen in the passages above), but with Christ himself and the Church’s hope. However, the underlined phrases suggest that the Church being “Christ’s body” means more than just being a group of people who represent Christ on Earth. Rather, God reckons them as being part of Christ’s physical body, as we see in between the Ephesians passages! (I’ve already explained here that “the commonwealth of Israel” — verse 12b YLT — was already understood by Paul and his readers as inheriting the Covenants of Promise, and that God’s Son died so that his unfaithful bride could be released from her Old marriage contract and be remarried to him, the “one new man”, under the New marriage contract–just as an unfaithful wife under the Mosaic Law was not allowed to marry someone else until her first husband died; see Romans 7:1-4.)

14 for he is our peace, who did make both [Jewish and Gentile believers] one, and the middle wall of the enclosure did break down, 15 the enmity in his flesh, the law of the commands in ordinances having done away, that the two he might create in himself into one new [properly, “renewed”; the Greek word, G2537, connotes freshness, rather than youth] man, making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body [Jesus’ body on the cross] to God through the cross, having slain the enmity in it, 17 and having come, he did proclaim good news — peace to you — the far-off and the nigh, 18 because through him we have the access — we both — in one Spirit unto the Father. (Ephesians 2:14-18 YLT, boldface and underlining added)

In fact, Ephesians 3:9-11 (the very passage that prompted this post in the first place!) also alludes to this.

and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places [dominions]. This was in accordance with the eternal purpose [literally, “the purpose of the ages”] which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord (Ephesians 3:9-11 1995 NASB, boldface and underlining added)

The NASB phrasing “the administration of the mystery” follows the oldest manuscripts and the majority of manuscripts, which is why most English translations have “administration” or “plan” here (the ASV has “dispensation”, highlighting a possible connection with the Latin Vulgate, which has dispensatio). But the KJV, Webster Bible, YLT, NKJV, and LGV follow the Textus Receptus here, which has “fellowship” instead of “administration”. And intriguingly, that minority reading, “the fellowship of the mystery/secret”, has an extra connection with something the Apostle John wrote a couple decades or so later–and it just so happens to cohere perfectly with all the other passages we just looked at:

That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we did behold, and our hands did handle, concerning the Word of the Lifeand the Life was manifested, and we have seen, and do testify, and declare to you the Life, the age-[en]during, which was with the Father, and was manifested to usthat which we have seen and heard declare we to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ; and these things we write to you, that your joy may be full [literally, “may be having been filled”; perfect-tense passive participle].

And this is the message that we have heard from Him, and announce to you, that God is light, and darkness in Him is not at all; if we may say — ‘we have fellowship with Him,’ and in the darkness may walk — we lie, and do not the truth; and if in the light we may walk, as He is in the light — we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son doth cleanse us from every sin; (1 John 1:1-7 YLT, boldface and underlining added)

In light of Paul’s clarification in Colossians 2:2 that Christ himself is “the mystery”, it looks like John was expanding on the phrase “the fellowship of the mystery”–which would only make sense if Paul had already used that phrase (remember, John’s writings were meant to reinforce Paul’s epistles); and unless you go with the Textus Receptus reading of Ephesians 3:9, he doesn’t! Warner even points out a grammatical nuance to John’s writings in a note on John 1:13.

Whenever John referred to Christians being ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ (“the having been begotten out of God) he always used the singular number and the perfect tense. The perfect tense describes a present state that is the result of past completed action (1 Jn. 3:9; 1 Jn. 4:7; 1 Jn. 5:1,4,18). The singular number describes a class of people, not individuals. In baptism believers are “begotten from above” (John 3:3-5) by being joined to the “only-begotten of the Father.” Thus baptized Christians are considered one with Christ as a single entity. However, here John used the aorist passive indicative which indicates a one-time historical event without implying that the result continued to the present. This is because the next verse says “and Logos became flesh,” showing that Logos’ former divine nature did not continue in His humanity (cf. Phil. 2:5-8). This distinction between the singular aorist tense form (referring to the Son’s origin as historically “begotten” out of God) vs. the perfect tense form (referring to the whole class of believers joined to the Son, and thus considered part of “the Begotten”) is also the key to properly understanding two seemingly difficult verses, 1 John 3:9 & 5:18. The whole entity of “the having been begotten out of God” does not sin, because “the Seed [the Son] of Him remains among it,” (the Anointed one remains among the assembly by the holy Breath) which is not able to sin because “out of God it has been begotten” (1 Jn. 3:9). Also, “the whole having been begotten out of God” does not sin because “the One who was begotten [aorist tense – the Son] preserves it, and the wicked do not touch it” (1 John 5:18). Jesus’ prayer in chapter 17 clarifies this concept in which He spoke of the redeemed as a single entity – one – just as the Father and Son are one (viewed as one even though consisting of many distinct persons). In Johannine theology, all of the redeemed become one with Christ and are considered “the whole having been begotten out of God” because Logos was originally and literally begotten out of God. {Scroll to p. 3-4 in the PDF. Italics, boldface, and underlining in original.}

Finally, while Pulliam rightly tried to interpret Ephesians 3:11 in light of 1:9-10, he failed to in turn consider those verses in light of their context:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places [dominions] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world [literally, “before the casting down of the world order”; this phrase refers to the Fall of Man, not the Creation Week], that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us [note that the predestination is on the collective level, not the individual level] to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted [literally, “He highly favored us”; aorist active indicative] in the Beloved [literally, “in the one having been beloved”; perfect-tense passive singular masculine participle].

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both [following TR; this word is absent in NA28 and the Majority Text] which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance [compare Galatians 3:16,26-29], being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted [literally, “we, the ones having previously hoped”] in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:3-12 NKJV, boldface and underlining added)

Both of the underlined phrases are referring to the nation of Israel. How can I tell? Well, for the phrase “we, the ones having previously hoped in Christ”, not only does everything after the comma rule out anyone up until Paul’s time who wasn’t aware of (and thus, couldn’t place hope in) Messianic prophecies (the bulk of which were given to Israel), but by using the word “we”, Paul was including himself among the group he was referring to. Paul wasn’t an Antediluvian Son of God (Genesis 4:26 LXX, Genesis 6:1-4, Revelation 14:1-5), or a Patriarch, but an Israelite (Romans 11:1, Philippians 3:5). As for “the one having been beloved”, this term occurs only here in the NT, but grammatical variants of it occur in the Septuagint, the earliest of which come from Moses:

And this is the blessing with which Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death. And he said, The Lord is come from Sina, and has appeared from Seir to us, and has hasted out of the mount of Pharan, with the ten thousands of Cades; on his right hand were his angels with him. And he spared his people, and all his sanctified ones are under thy hands; and they are under thee; and he received of his words the law which Moses charged us, an inheritance to the assemblies of Jacob. And he shall be prince with [literally, “in”] the beloved one [perfect-tense middle singular masculine participle], when the princes of the people are gathered together with the tribes of Israel.…

And to Benjamin he said, The beloved [perfect-tense middle singular masculine participle, but nominative instead of dative this time] of the Lord shall dwell in confidence, and God overshadows him always, and he rested between his shoulders.

…There is not any such as the God of the beloved [perfect-tense middle singular masculine participle, but genitive this time]; he who rides upon the heaven is thy helper, and the magnificent One of the firmament. And the rule of God shall protect thee, and that under the strength of the everlasting arms; and he shall cast forth the enemy from before thy face, saying, Perish. And Israel shall dwell in confidence alone on the land of Jacob, with corn and wine; and the sky shall be misty with dew upon thee. Blessed art thou, O Israel; who is like to thee, O people saved by the Lord? thy helper shall hold his shield over thee, and his sword is thy boast; and thine enemies shall speak falsely to thee, and thou shalt tread upon their neck.

(Deuteronomy 33:1-5,12,26-29 BLXX, boldface and underlining added)

Other passages that use this term for Israel include the following:

And he will beat them small, even Libanus itself, like a calf; and the beloved one [nominative singular masculine perfect-tense middle participle] is as a young unicorn [i.e., rhinoceros]. (Psalm 29:6 [28:6 by the LXX verse numbering] BLXX; underlining added)

Thus saith the Lord God that made thee, and he that formed thee from the womb; Thou shalt yet be helped: fear not, my servant Jacob; and beloved [nominative singular masculine perfect-tense middle participle] Israel, whom I have chosen. (Isaiah 44:2 BLXX, underlining added)

Why has my [literally, “the”] beloved [nominative singular feminine perfect-tense middle participle] wrought abomination in my house? will prayers and holy offerings take away thy wickedness from thee, or shalt thou escape by these things? (Jeremiah 11:15 BLXX, underlining added)

In light of this, the fact that Paul includes his Christian readers in Ephesus as those God “highly favored… in the one having been beloved” implies that they will now get to partake in “the covenants of the promise” along with “the commonwealth of Israel” (Ephesians 2:12 YLT). Moreover, the fact that all of these participles are in the perfect tense implies that the loving continues to the present!

Conclusion

All in all, I fail to see what problems these passages present for my position. They all coalesce into a beautiful doctrine about the faithful being beloved along with “the commonwealth of Israel”, reconciled to have fellowship with Christ and his Father through his own death on the cross to atone for us, freeing Israelites from their obligations under the Old marriage contract so they can marry their resurrected Groom under the New one (Jeremiah 31:31-40; Hosea 1-3) and Gentiles from their slavery to sin so they can become children of the resulting union (Isaiah 8:18), allowing Jew and Gentile alike to become part of “one new man”, reckoned by the Father to be as pure as His only-begotten (but now human) Son in his glorified body–and thus, as worthy as His Son to inherit the Kingdom, including the land that Abraham will possess forevermore.

Things Which Must Occur Swiftly … for the Occasion is At Hand

Last Modified:

Part 5 of this series

Sorry for the long wait, but at least you got some extra time to work your way through my longest post yet! Plus, I got to fly out to meet my new nephew and play with his older brother last weekend! So now that I’ve recuperated from that trip and have started getting my internal clock back on track, I think it’s about time I gave you the next article in my series on Bob Pulliam’s book “In the Days of Those Kings”. Bear in mind that I’ll probably be jumping back and forth between topics in this series (e.g., I’ll jump in and out of discussions about eschatological prophecies and deal with other parts of Pulliam’s book in between them, rather than deal with all of them in a row), since I make progress on some discussions faster than others. So once this series is done, I reserve the right to change up the final order of the Parts in this series, so future readers can have a more coherent train of thought to follow.

Introduction

At this point in my series on Bob Pulliam’s book “In the Days of Those Kings”, I’d like to bring up his discussion in Lesson 21 regarding a couple of key phrases in the opening and closing chapters of Revelation. Just after quoting the first 3 verses of Revelation from the 1995 NASB while boldfacing the phrases “must shortly take place” and “the time is near”, he writes the following:

John said that these things “must shortly take place.” Donald Barnhouse tells us that John meant that the “events of this book are to take place within a brief space of time.” Mr. Barnhouse is telling us that John did not mean that they were about to take place in John’s day. He is convinced that the events recorded in Revelation are all about today. He wants us to understand them as taking place quickly when they do begin to take place.

If we had no way of knowing what “shortly” meant in verse one, surely we could understand John when he said “the time is near.” (Rev 1:3) The events revealed within the prophecy of this book were near.

John was also told that “the time is near” at the end of the book (Rev 22:10). The original readers obviously needed this vision to understand what was about to take place in their lives. Jesus said, “I come quickly.” (Rev 22:20) The word quickly is the same word used in the very first verse of chapter one. John begins by saying these things will shortly (quickly) take place, and Jesus finishes it off by saying that He is coming quickly.

{“In the Days of Those Kings: A 24 Lesson Adult Bible Class Study on the Error of Dispensationalism”. Pulliam, Bob. 2015. Houston, TX: Book Pillar Publishing. 224. Italics, boldface, and content in parentheses in original. See also source cited therein.}

So, Pulliam concedes here that the interpretation of “suddenly” (i.e., “rapidly”, “over a short space of time”) in Revelation 1:1 is just as valid as “shortly”, if we ignore all other contextual considerations; hence, additional information is needed to decide which of the two is correct. On that much, I completely agree.

After all, the Greek phrase the 1995 NASB renders “shortly take place” is γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει. Here’s a word-by-word translation of this phrase: “come into being {aorist middle infinitive} / in / a brief space [of time] {dative singular neuter}”. Barnhouse was right: “a brief space [of time]” is indeed the literal meaning of τάχει; check Strong’s Definition for G5034 if you don’t believe me. Whether the “brief space [of time]” mentioned in Revelation 1:1 is the time before the events begin or the time over which the events occur can’t be determined from this phrase alone. This is why I offer the thought-for-thought rendering “swiftly” in this post’s title: “swiftly” is a single word that can carry either of these meanings, so rendering the word this way in English Bibles would leave the interpretation up to the reader, rather than imposing the translator’s bias(es) on the reader.

The same would go for Revelation 22:20, although there’s one correction I should make here: Pulliam’s claim that “quickly” in that verse is the same word in 1:1 isn’t quite correct. Rather, the two words are derived from the same adjective: ταχύς (G5036), meaning “prompt”, “ready”, or “swift”. While 1:1 uses the noun form, τάχος, 22:20 uses the adverb form, ταχύ (G5035). Strong’s Definition for the adverb is “shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily”. So once again, either sense is a valid meaning for the word, and additional information is needed to determine which sense John intended.

Now, Pulliam is quite correct that which sense is meant in Revelation 1:1 (and 22:20) can be conclusively determined from Revelation 1:3 (and/or 22:10, which does use the same adverb as 1:3). But ironically, the understanding he’s insisting upon for all four of these verses is ruled out after a more thorough study of the latter two!

Why Are Preterists So Obsessed With “Nearness” Statements?

But before we get to that, I’d like to highlight something I’ve noticed while reading materials from preterists (online or in books): they seem to be obsessed with driving home statements supposedly talking about the “nearness” of Christ’s coming and other events Jesus mentioned. For example, here are all the other examples I’ve found in Pulliam’s book, with my rebuttals included in the source citations (fair warning, there’s A LOT of them!):

{In Lesson 1:} Jesus, at the beginning of His ministry, was preaching, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” (Mk 1:15) Jesus later said, “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.” (Mk 9:1) In essence, then, Jesus was saying, “It is within the grasp (at hand) of this generation.” So what may we say of that promise if the “kingdom of God” as promised did not come during that generation?
{“In the Days of Those Kings”. 10. Italics and boldface in original. I’ll address Mark 1:15 in a future post I’ve already written (now posted!), and I’ve already addressed Mark 9:1 here.}
{In Lesson 3:} This disregard for past fulfillment can also be seen in their treatment of Matthew 24. Jesus said that the then-present generation would not pass before its fulfillment (Mt 24:34). The Dispensationalist, however, tells us that our generation was on Jesus’ mind, so these events are about to be fulfilled in our near future.
{Ibid. 31. In fact, both of those interpretations of the phrase “this generation” in Matthew 24:34 are wrong, as I’ve already shown here.}
{In Lesson 11:} The Messiah had come according to prophecy, and the plan was for Him to establish His kingdom. John, as the forerunner of Jesus, had come preaching in the spirit and power of Elijah, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Mt 3:2; Lk 1:17). Jesus also preached a “kingdom of heaven is at hand” message (Mt 4:17), and sent the twelve out to preach it (Mt 10:7). Without a doubt, Jesus had every intention of establishing His kingdom on His first visit. We all agree on this.
{Ibid. 112. I’ll explain in that future post where I address Mark 1:15 that these mentions of “the kingdom of heaven [being] at hand” early on in Jesus’ ministry referred to the fact that Jesus embodied the Kingdom of God during his earthly ministry. Also, Jesus never intended to fully establish his kingdom on his first visit, but merely let the Israelites — and more importantly, Satan — think he did so his atonement for all sins could happen (1 Corinthians 2:7-8).}
I cannot lay enough emphasis upon the fact that the nearness of the kingdom was a prophetic declaration of Jesus. [I suspect my readers will soon beg to differ!] It was not a declaration of wishful thinking. It was a statement of what was to be expected. That expectation did not change, as is evident from a look at Matthew 16:28. After the supposed change in plan earlier in Matthew 16 [referring to the dispensationalist claim that when Jesus promised in Matthew 16:18 to build his church, he was declaring a “Plan B”], Jesus was still promising the kingdom. In fact, He pinned the timing down to that generation.
{Ibid. 113. Italics and boldface in original. Content in brackets mine. Again, I’ve already addressed Matthew 16:28 here.}
To say that God had to postpone the kingdom to punish the Jews (Mt 23:34-36) is tantamount to calling Jesus a liar when He said the kingdom would arrive before they died (Mt 16:28)….
The Dispensationalist believes that rejection was known, but ignored by Jesus in promising a fulfillment in that generation, necessitating a future effort to get the entire job done.
{Ibid. 114. Italics and boldface in original. Again, I disagree that God “had to postpone the kingdom”, because He never intended to institute it fully with Jesus’ first coming, anyway (only to atone for all sins and open up the Heavenly Dominions to those who’d follow him, with the Heavenly Dominions expanding to include everything elseexcept the Father — when he returns). Again, see here regarding Matthew 16:28. Again, see here regarding the phrase “this generation” in Matthew 24:34.}
Since it is unthinkable to put Jesus in the position of promising something He did not deliver (the kingdom in that generation), we need to look for the means by which the Dispensationalist deals with this problem he has created with his doctrine.
Two problems arise when Dispensationalists delay God’s plan due to rejection. We will discuss these problems as we take a closer look at this proposed “rejection” of Jesus. The problems they must address are:

1) If Dispensationalism is correct, the promise/prophecy of John and Jesus at the beginning of their ministries failed. It was to be in the lifetime of the people who heard, and yet it did not come. Failed prophecy is not acceptable for anyone who is to be regarded as a true prophet (Dt 18:20-22).
2) The redemptive purpose of God gets left out of the “master plan” when we conclude that Jesus wasn’t supposed to be rejected by the Jews (the Mt 23:35 view). If they had accepted Jesus, there would have been no sacrifice for our sins.

The first problem created by the Dispensational view is a “failure” of the promise made by Jesus (Mt 4:17; 16:28; Mk 9:1). The Dispensationalist does not look at the promise/prophecy at the beginning of the gospels as failing. It is simply viewed as an unfortunate delay. They emphasize the fact that John and Jesus said the kingdom is coming, and they tell us that it will come in the future. That emphasis ignores the timing specifically declared by Jesus. There is more to this than a promise that it will come. Both John and Jesus said that this kingdom was at hand. Jesus said that it would come within their lifetimes (Mt 16:28). What may we say about a promise that is only half kept? What may we say about a prophet whose prophecies are not 100% accurate? This problem cannot be answered with a certainty of fulfillment 2,000+ years in the future. If the kingdom did not come in their generation, then the promise/prophecy failed.
{Ibid. 115. Italics and boldface in original. Underlining mine. Again, Matthew 4:17 was an accurate statement at the time because Jesus embodied the kingdom of God during his time on earth. Again, see here regarding “this generation” and here regarding Matthew 16:28. Dispensationalists will get no help from me regarding the second problem.}
That [a quotation from Clarence Larkin that makes substantially the same point I make here] sounds like a pretty good argument, doesn’t it? However, there is a pretty significant problem here. This problem is found in trying to determine what “common honesty demanded” of Jesus [a phrase Larkin used in the quote]. Earlier in His ministry, Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” (Mt 16:28) Now I want you to ask yourself, “Did Jesus’ disciples understand Him to mean a ‘visible’ or ‘spiritual’ kingdom coming in their lifetimes?” The disciples obviously believed a visible, earthly kingdom was coming in their lifetimes. Wouldn’t “common honesty” demand that Jesus correct their understanding about the actual kingdom they would see in their lifetimes? The Dispensational appeal to “common honesty” on the part of Jesus is a foolish attempt to force the misguided hopes of first century Jews into God’s plans.
{Ibid. 116. Italics in original. Content in brackets mine. My response to Pulliam’s questions? Jesus’ disciples didn’t expect “a visible, earthly kingdom was coming in their lifetimes“; they only expected that some of them would see “a visible earthly kingdom… in their lifetimes“. Again, see here regarding Matthew 16:28.}
[Responding to another quotation of Larkin:] This illustration of a preacher, preaching to people who he knows will not believe, is extremely deceptive. That is not at all what this is like. Instead, it would be like a preacher prophesying that a person will believe within their lifetime, but then they die before they do so. Jesus telling that generation that the kingdom would come before they died is the real point of this discussion.
{Ibid. 118. Italics in original. Again, see here regarding the phrase “this generation”.}
Luke then said, “He therefore began saying…” (Lk 3:7). Why did John begin to warn the multitudes? Because the words of Isaiah were coming to pass! Which ones? Prophecies of the Messiah. Keep in mind that there were some present who would not taste death before He established His kingdom (Mk 9:1).
{Ibid. 119. For the sixth time, see here regarding the claim about some not tasting death before seeing the Kingdom.}
{From a chart in Lesson 13:} Jesus said the kingdom would come in that generation. [Written once on each half of the chart]… {In footnote 4 thereof:} The promise required that a fulfillment be before some who were present would taste death (Mt 16:18 & 28; Mk 9:1). This would necessitate a fulfillment before the end of that generation. {In footnote 6 of the Lesson:} The expected kingdom must be established within that initial generation for the prophecy to be fulfilled (Mt 16:28); however, this view violates that necessary requirement.
{Ibid. 137. Italics in original. No, the promise of these verses only required that the expected kingdom be seen by some of the Disciples within their lifetimes. For the seventh time, see here regarding the claim about some not tasting death before seeing the Kingdom.}
Jesus told the disciples that He would build His church in their lifetimes (Mt 16:18). In the same context, He told the disciples that the kingdom would come with power in their lifetimes (Mt 16:28; Mk 9:1). In some way, the kingdom promise was fulfilled in His establishment of the church in their lifetimes. That receiving of power is revealed in Acts 2 where we find the beginning of the church. The kingdom would come with power and the church came with power. The natural conclusion is that the kingdom was coming when the church was coming.
{Ibid. 138. Italics in original. Yes, the Heavenly Dominions were expanded on the day of Pentecost, A.D. 30–from just the 11 remaining Disciples, Matthias, and their 108 other disciples to all who would follow Christ going forward; but that doesn’t mean the kingdom had arrived in its fullness–in fact, Peter denied this in Acts 2, as I show here. For the eighth time, see here regarding the claim about some not tasting death before seeing the Kingdom, where I also explain that Peter said the “power” of the kingdom was actually seen on the Mount of Transfiguration.}
The kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has fully come. It is not a future expectation in the New Testament. It is a declaration of realization. Any attempt to make the kingdom a future event does two very significant (and undesirable) things:

1) It puts Jesus in the position of being a liar, or an ignorant prophet. He said the kingdom was coming in that generation. If He knew that it would not, then He lied. If He didn’t know, then He was ignorant.
2) It makes the prophecies vague beyond any possibility of understanding. Apostles and prophets who were inspired by the Holy Spirit declared Old Testament prophecy fulfilled. They claimed that Jesus had ascended David’s throne. If we must view their understanding as a shadowy figure of future events, then there is no hope of accurately predicting the truth about the “End-Times.” Dispensational authors describing how it will actually take place need to stop putting their speculative books on bookstore shelves as if they have better insights than men who actually wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

{Ibid. 141. Again, Peter placed Jesus ruling on David’s throne in the future from the events of Acts 2. For the fifth time, see here regarding the phrase “this generation”. Yes, many OT prophecies were fulfilled in the 1st century A.D., but the idea that all OT prophecies were fulfilled by then is simply false–Ezekiel 26:14, which wasn’t fulfilled until A.D. 1291, is a prime counterexample. I also find it hypocritical for Pulliam to decry dispensational authors who write as if they know better than the Apostles, when he said to my face that “We don’t follow Justin Martyr,” (his exact words) in an attempt to dismiss the Church Fathers’ insights on eschatology wholesale–as if he knows what the Apostles taught better than people writing within living memory of the Apostles, some of whom were directly taught by the Apostles! More on what these people taught later. Then again, Pulliam has plenty of company here: quite a few groups within Christendom have made Justin Martyr their whipping boy–precisely because he exposes so many of their cherished teachings as later innovations that were totally foreign to the earliest Christians!}
{In Lesson 17:} When we come to the New Testament, an inspired proclamation begins to go forth: “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mk 1:15). What time was fulfilled? Jesus was saying that those days were the intended time for Old Testament prophecy to be fulfilled. It was the days of that final kingdom in Nebuchadnezzar’s image. The fourth kingdom (Rome) was in power (Lk 3:1), and the messenger to prepare the way had already come (Mk 1:1-5 cmp. Mal 3:1; Isa 40:3). Any effort to move the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy into the future makes Christ’s proclamation a mistake. He said the time was fulfilled. God’s timetable placed the kingdom in the days of the Roman kings. The stage was set, the curtain had risen, and the players were in place.
{Ibid. 179-180. Italics and boldface in original. Again, Ezekiel 26:14 shows that Pulliam has misunderstood Christ’s proclamation–not all Old Testament prophecy was fulfilled by Apostolic times. I’ll give a fuller response to this remark by Pulliam when I discuss Lessons 17 & 18 in more detail, but suffice it to say for now that Pulliam is being selective with the details of “Nebuchadnezzar’s image” in Daniel 2: verse 40 was fulfilled when the Roman Empire conquered the Ptolemaic Empire in 30 B.C., and Pulliam has verse 44 being fulfilled with Jesus’ crucifixion about 60 years later–despite verses 41-43 not being fulfilled in between!}
{In Lesson 19:} Matthew has a different reason [besides the beauty of the temple complex mentioned in the previous paragraph] for telling us about the disciples’ attention given to the buildings. It is because Jesus was about to say, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here shall be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” (Mt 24:2) Jesus told them this grand temple that amazed them would be destroyed. Keep in mind that they had just heard Jesus prophecy [sic] of destruction in that generation (Mt 23:35-39).
{Ibid. 200. That last statement wrongly assumes that the phrase “this generation” in Matthew 23:36 refers to nothing more and nothing less than Jesus’ contemporaries. So, for the sixth time, see here regarding the phrase “this generation”.}
Since the signs of Matthew 24 are predicted as coming upon “this generation” (Mt 24:34), we need to determine what Jesus meant. Looking back at Matthew 23:36, the condemnation of Jesus in that text was to fall upon “this generation.” Hal Lindsey tells us that the doom in this prophecy would fall upon “the same generation that crucified Him.” That is exactly what Jesus meant, and the original hearers would have understood correctly. Dispensationalists take a different view of that same phrase in Matthew 24:34. Mr. Lindsey says that the Matthew 24 “this generation” phrase refers to the length of time it will take for the prophecy to be fulfilled.
{Ibid. 201. Italics and boldface in original. I agree that “this generation” has the same meaning in Matthew 24:34 as it does in 23:36; but did Pulliam, Lindsey, etc. ever consider that the phrase’s meaning in Matthew 23:36 should in turn be interpreted in light of how the phrase is used in the rest of the Bible? That’s how I interpret the phrase, and that’s how Jesus’ Jewish Disciples and the OT-educated Scribes & Pharisees Jesus spoke to in Matthew 23 would’ve understood it. For the seventh time, see here regarding the phrase “this generation”.}
Who asked, and to whom will it apply?… This generation. In Matthew 24:5-15, Jesus gave a list of signs the disciples should, and should not, watch for, so they could be as certain as looking for fruit on a tree. He then tells them that it will be within this generation. Remember, He said “this generation” to them, not us. They wanted to know when and Jesus told them in this generation.
Since a generation is 40 years, and Jesus was saying this around AD 33, then it would have to be fulfilled by AD 73 (33 + 40). In fact, it was fulfilled in AD 70 when Jerusalem was completely destroyed by the Romans. That would put it within the generation to which Jesus was speaking. Why would I go looking for a future fulfillment when it was so clearly fulfilled in the lives of the generation living when Jesus spoke?
{Ibid. 202. Italics and boldface in original. For the eighth time, see here regarding the phrase “this generation”. As for why we should look for a future fulfillment for the events of the Olivet Discourse: in the Great Temple Discourse (given earlier that same day, per Luke 21:37 & Matthew 24:1-3), Jesus distinguished the end times (Luke 21:8-11,25-35) from the events of the 1st century (verses 12-24; note that Jesus breaks the chronological flow of verses 8-11 by opening verse 12 with the phrase “But before all these things,” — 1995 NASB — need I remind you that I’ve never once seen a preterist exposition of the Great Temple and Olivet Discourses that even attempts to deal with this phrase in Luke 21:12?)!}
"when will these things be..." (Matthew 24:3). Jesus said, "this generation". This -> Disciples' Period of Time. Not That -> Our Period of Time.
{Ibid. 203. For the ninth time, see here regarding the phrase “this generation”.}
The sign of “the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory” (Mt 24:30) is not the second coming. We must keep this within the generation to whom it was spoken (Mt 24:34; 23:36). This will be especially easy if you connect the end of Matthew 23 with our current text. Jesus pronounced doom upon Jerusalem within that generation (Mt 23:36). With that destruction in mind, Jesus said, “from now on you shall not see Me until…” (Mt 23:39). Jesus would be seen when doom came upon Jerusalem. If Jesus would be seen in the destruction of Jerusalem, then the sign of the Son of Man in Matthew 24:30 is not the final judgment, nor is it a future judgment on an Antichrist. It was the power and glory of Jesus exercised on that generation for rejecting the apostles and prophets He sent to them (Mt 23:34-35). This was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in AD 70. Was it simply the Romans destroying another foreign city? Jesus said, when it comes, it will have been My divine justice in judgment.
{Ibid. 205-206. Italics and boldface in original. Where do I even begin with this one? Oh, I know–say it with me, now: For the tenth time, see here regarding the phrase “this generation”. This also has to be the most blatant example of selective quotation that I’ve noticed in Pulliam’s book so far: he totally omitted what Jesus said in Matthew 23:39 after “until”, which tells us when Jesus was saying they would see him again! “For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, ‘BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!’” (1995 NASB, all-caps in original, boldface added) The statement in all-caps quotes Psalm 118:26a, the context of which starts by prophesying Israel at large rejecting Jesus (verse 22, which Jesus had already quoted to that effect in Matthew 21:42), but then adds (as Jesus also does in Matthew 21:42) that “This is the LORD’S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.” (Psalm 118:23 KJV)–a sentiment that the 1st century Israelites who rejected Jesus would hardly have agreed with, but that Paul endorsed in Romans 11:30-33! It goes on to extol “the day which Jehovah hath made” (verse 24b ASV), ask God for salvation and prosperity (verse 25), mention celebrating feasts in temple worship (verse 27), and conclude that “His mercy endures forever.” (verse 29c NKJV) What part of this sounds like it was fulfilled in the second destruction of Jerusalem?! It’s far more descriptive of Christ’s second coming! Speaking of which, Pulliam claims earlier in the same Lesson that Matthew 24:4-34 is talking about the second destruction of Jerusalem, while verses 35-51 are talking about Jesus’ second coming {p. 201}. Yet both sections include among their events Jesus’ parousia (verse 27, as well as 37 & 39), a word whose only earlier Biblical occurrence was in the disciples’ question that prompted the Olivet Discourse (verse 3); this means that when the disciples asked about this event, they would’ve been using this word with all the connotations and only the connotations that it had in the earlier secular Greek literature. And there’s not a single use of this word in the earlier Greek literature where the ruler isn’t physically present for his own victory party. Hence, both the disciples and Jesus were referring to when Jesus himself would physically return as their victorious King.}
{Also from Lesson 21:} The book of Revelation is about an intense persecution that its first readers would soon endure. As we continue our study, we will learn how this great message would encourage them to be faithful.
There are a lot of symbols in the book of Revelation. We must be very careful as we study its contents. One of the first things we must understand is the fact that the future events it reveals would “shortly take place.” They were “future” when John wrote about them, but that was 2,000 years ago. The time was “near” in the first century, and we must look for a fulfillment of these events in the immediate future of its first readers.
In Revelation 2 and 3, we learn of tribulations that were imminent.
{Ibid. 230. Then why did every patristic writer of the 1st and 2nd centuries who said anything about eschatology regard events of Revelation 4-22 as still future from their own time? As a representative sampling, see Chapter 16 of the Didache (written in the late 1st or early 2nd century), Chapters 4, 15, & 16 of the Epistle of Barnabas (written sometime between the second destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 and the end of the Bar Kochba Rebellion in A.D. 135), the Fourth Vision in Book 1 of the Shepherd of Hermas (written in the 2nd century), Chapters 80 & 81 in Justin Martyr’s “Dialogue with Trypho” (mid-2nd century), and Chapters 25-30 in Book 5 of Irenaeus’ “Against Heresies” (circa A.D. 180). Why would these people have entertained the idea that something even worse than what Christians had already been experiencing under the Romans was still to come, unless that’s what John himself had actually taught? Moreover, since all of these people (with the probable exception of Irenaeus, whose then-deceased teacher Polycarp had been a disciple of John himself) were writing within living memory of John’s own oral teaching, how could they possibly have all departed from his teaching, in the same direction, starting when John died (if not even earlier), despite their geographic separation throughout the Roman empire (the Epistle of Barnabas was written near Alexandria, Egypt, the Shepherd of Hermas in Rome, Dialogue with Trypho in Asia Minor, and Against Heresies in what is now France), and with no trace of any resistance or rebuttal from any of the elders or apologists in contemporary Christendom? In light of all the checks and balances of 1st- and 2nd-century Greco-Roman society (whether inside or outside the church), that’s impossible.}
{In Lesson 22:} The book of Revelation has a “You Are Here” arrow. We have a disadvantage to the original readers of Revelation. They knew what was going on in the world at the time it was written. To identify the ruler who was sitting on the throne at that time was easy for them. They simply had to look at current events. Fortunately, two-thirds of the way through the book of Revelation, there is a “You Are Here” arrow. For original readers, it put the Roman kings being discussed in perspective. For us, it has the added advantage of telling us where the book is to be dated with respect to who was ruling.
We have already learned that the events revealed in Revelation were about to take place (lesson 21). These timing statements at the beginning and end of the book are not our only help for interpreting Revelation….
[After discussing the present tense of the word for “reign” in Revelation 17:18:] The Dispensationalist must jump forward to the future as he interprets all of this. His interpretation ignores the guiding force behind this book. These things were about to take place. The time was near.
{Ibid. 234,235. I deal with his “‘You Are Here’ arrow” in a future post that I’ve already written (now uploaded!). But for now, note that the first sentence in the second paragraph and the last two sentences in the third paragraph hinge on all the points in the previous quote that I just refuted with simple historical facts. However, we still have to deal with the argument from Revelation 1:3 & 22:10, and we will by the end of this post.}
The people first reading this [Revelation 17:7-11] had a knowledge of the current events that created this monster in John’s vision. As the angel explains this to John, he and his readers would have readily associated the king who was currently on the throne, and would have known that two more kings would arise, and the second would bring a terrible tribulation upon them. They could not have thought that another 2,000+ years must pass before this would be fulfilled….
Remember, it was only necessary that the original readers be able to identify every detail in Revelation. The book of Revelation was not written directly to us, but it is preserved for our benefit.
Conclusion:
We know for certain that the book of Revelation was written about circumstances which the seven churches of Asia would soon face….
Now that we have established the identity of the beast and time frame for fulfillment, we are ready to broaden our overview of the book of Revelation. What was God telling the seven churches of Asia in all of this symbolism? We may not have a specific application for every symbol as they applied to the circumstances of that day, but we can understand enough to comprehend the message of Revelation.
{Ibid. 237,239. Italics and boldface in original. Again, this assumes everything asserted in the previous two quotes, and I’ll explain what’s wrong with his take on the kings of this passage in that post I mentioned in my response to the previous quote. Also, does anyone else think the statements before the “Conclusion:” header and the final sentence of this quote sound like a pathetic cop-out to avoid dealing with (even only “seemingly”) contrary details? And what would be the benefit of preserving chapters 4-22 for future generations of Christians if only the original readers were meant to understand them? Why didn’t God only preserve chapters 1-3 (the ones that supposedly apply to all believers)? And for that matter, why include a warning against taking away any words from the book (Revelation 22:19) if nobody in the future will need to understand so many of them, anyway?}
{In Lesson 23:} Another view [of the number 666] is that the numbers should be used as a calculation of a name. Each letter of the alphabet is assigned a number in this process called “gematria.” The problem most expositors find with this view is the fact that a number is not easily converted into a name. The combinations become seemingly limitless as the number gets larger, but we must bear in mind that it had to make sense to those original readers. If this view is adopted, the most likely calculation for ‘666’ would yield “Nero Caesar” in the Hebrew alphabet and the same in Latin if the marginal ‘616’ is used. It only becomes likely because the first readers would have had no trouble recognizing Nero in the descriptions (especially Revelation 13 & 17).
{Ibid. 247-248. Italics and boldface in original. Aside from the fact that his claim regarding the gematria value of “Nero Caesar” is flat-out wrong (I even do the math to prove it in that future post), Irenaeus made it clear in Book 5, Chapter 30 of “Against Heresies” that neither he nor any of his contemporaries in the late 2nd century knew with certainty what the correct name was–although he offers Evanthas (ΕΥΑΝΘΑΣ), Lateinos (ΛΑΤΕΙΝΟΣ), and Teitan (ΤΕΙΤΑΝ) as examples of names that do add up to 666 in Greek. That couldn’t possibly have been the case if the reference to Nero really was as obvious to early Christians as Pulliam is making it out to be.}
After a long period of time, designated as 1,000 years, the dead are judged and eternity’s existence begins. This 1,000 year period does something very significant for our understanding. Although the events of Revelation were going to take place soon, we have now “fast-forwarded” into the future. Not for a literal span of time, but a great undetermined (symbolic) period of time. The number 1,000 has been a very common expression for an uncalculated sum that is large. A discussion of this and other numbers may be found on pages 261 & 262.
…The seven churches of Asia would soon see the events of this revelation unfold. As we have seen, the events up to Revelation 20 deal with persecution by, and God’s judgment of, the Roman Empire. God already knows how this conflict will end, and whoever is on the side of the Lamb will be victorious through His blood.
{Ibid. 249,250. Italics and boldface in original. Wait, how did God pour out his wrath on Rome in the 1st century? I read the entire chapter leading up to these statements, and I didn’t see him go into detail on that. In fact, he outright hand-waves on this point: “Pausing at each plague to identify it in history may not be what the Lord intended for the reader to do….Remember the bowls [in Revelation 16] as God’s judgment poured out on Rome.” {Ibid. 248. Italics and boldface in original.} Surely Pulliam doesn’t believe the judgment on Rome is still ongoing, since he claimed back in Lesson 17 that Daniel 7 teaches us “that the Roman Empire can never be revived. Rome was completely slain. It was annihilated and destroyed forever.” {Ibid. 181. Italics in original.} Also, the Greeks didn’t treat 1,000 as an uncalculated large sum, but rather 10,000, which they referred to as a “myriad” (yes, this is where English got that word from); in fact, the ancient Greek mathematician Archimedes came up with a precursor of sorts to scientific notation by expressing large numbers in terms of “octades”, where the first octade represented a myriad of myriads, or 100,000,000 (100 million)–and Archimedes went even further to define an octade of octades (10 quadrillion) as the second octade, an octade of second octades (1 septillion) as the third octade, etc., until he defined the octadeth octade (10^800,000,000) as concluding the first period and acting as the “1” of the second period, and continuing through the tenth period {“Mathematics: Its Magic & Mastery”. 3rd Edition. Bakst, Aaron. 1967. Princeton, NJ: D. Van Nostrand Company. 59-60.}; sorry, I just couldn’t resist including a math discussion! And before you say “Well, that was the Greeks, John was a Jew”–Revelation 9:16 confirms that at least a basic version of Archimedes’ system had caught on by Apostolic times: the Greek phrase for “two hundred million” (NKJV) is δύο μυριάδες μυριάδων (duo muriades muriadōn; TR) or δισμυριάδες μυριάδων (dismuriades muriadōn; NA28); both phrasings literally mean “two myriads of myriads”, just as YLT renders it; and the presence of “two” makes it far more likely that this number was meant to be exact and literal, not symbolic. Finally, the patristic writers I cited above who unanimously taught futurism also taught that the 1,000 years were meant literally, and in particular, used it to expound the doctrine of chiliasm (which further shows that they didn’t believe Christ’s second coming was imminent): see Chapter 15 of the Epistle of Barnabas, Chapter 81 of “Dialogue with Trypho” and Chapter 28, Section 3, in Book 5 of “Against Heresies”.}
{In Lesson 24:} I believe it is helpful to consider what is not mentioned in this passage [Revelation 20]. Here are a few things that are commonly read into this text:

  • The Beginning of Christ’s reign.
  • Second coming of Jesus.
  • The bodily resurrection (especially in the greater context).
  • A 1,000 year reign on earth.
  • The literal throne of David.
  • The literal city of Jerusalem.
  • Jesus on earth.
  • Anyone other than martyrs.
  • Fulfillment of Abrahamic promises.
  • Fulfillment of Davidic promises.
    That these cannot be in Revelation 20:4 is made clear at the very beginning of Revelation. Revelation 20:4 was about to take place in the near future of the saints first reading this book. The Dispensationalist places these items in our future, 2,000+ years beyond the lives of those first readers. Revelation 20:4 is about none of the items in this list, so let’s see what it is about.
    {Ibid. 263. Italics and boldface in original. This elephant hurling hardly constitutes a rigorous attempt at harmonizing the text with all the other passages throughout the Bible that do associate the things listed with events mentioned in Revelation 20; this is just exegetical laziness. Remember, we can only conclusively say two accounts with different details are describing two different events if they contain mutually-exclusive details. And none of the items in that list contradict what’s described in Revelation 20 (for example, carefully checking the Greek text of verse 4 shows that martyrs are a subset of all the people mentioned (HIDMF, p. 818, Footnote 1391.)). And of course, I’ve already refuted all his proof-texts for a 1st-century fulfillment that his core argument following the list hinges on (except for Revelation 1:3, which I’ll get to below).}
    There are many questions [about Satan’s last stand] and most people have definite opinions. We must not forget that the book of Revelation is not about clearly describing final events for us to recognize them. The book of Revelation was about the conflict which would soon take place. If God had wanted us to have signs to watch for, He would have described this future time in greater detail. Instead, He has given a simple and brief description of Satan’s final effort, and most importantly, the fact that it cannot prevail. Whatever may take place at the end, God’s people can trust Him to accomplish His will, and provide for their salvation….
    Revelation is about the struggles saints would soon be facing as they approached the second century. While not addressed to us, we can learn much about personal sacrifice for Jesus when Satan tempts and tries us. We can also take great comfort in the expectations it provides the faithful for an eternity of joy and bliss.
    {Ibid. 266. Italics and boldface in original. Regarding the first paragraph, maybe he should consider that the passage mentions Gog and Magog being gathered together for battle (Revelation 20:8), something that Scripture had already prophesied in Ezekiel 38, which does give us some more details. Also, how ironic that Pulliam points out that God didn’t go into more detail in Revelation 20:7-10, yet himself totally ignores the vast majority of all the details throughout the rest of Revelation!}
    {In Appendix 2:} Before Jesus died for our iniquities (Isa 53:5 & 11), he prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem (Mt 24:1-34). He told the disciples that it would take place within that generation. This was fulfilled in AD 70. This second destruction of Jerusalem and its temple would be the result of iniquity (Mt 23:34-39), just as the first destruction was. After making this prophecy, Jesus immediately began to prophesy the time of His second coming. It would be a time which has no warning (Mt 24:36-51), unlike the destruction of Jerusalem, which would be attended by warning signs (Mt 24:5-15).
    {Ibid. 275. FOR THE ELEVENTH AND FINAL TIME, see here regarding the phrase “this generation”. Also, I already explained above that Luke 21:12-24 prophesied events of the 1st century (including the second destruction of Jerusalem), and that verses 8-11 & 25-35 are about the end times, covering the same events as Matthew 24:4-25:46 & Mark 13:5-37.}

FINALLY–that was an ordeal. And I’m sure you were getting sick and tired of all the repetitiveness in Pulliam’s arguments, too! But to be fair, Tim Warner placed his finger on the main reason why preterists come off as being so obnoxiously repetitive with these arguments about “nearness”: they don’t have much else to offer for their position!

The weight of the preterist interpretation stands almost exclusively on the statements in the New Testament regarding the nearness of Christ’s coming. Preterists insist that such statements as, “behold I come quickly,” demand that Christ’s coming occur in a very short period of time, within the lifetimes of at least some of the Apostles. But in holding this opinion, they are forced to deny the plain sense of the details of Christ’s coming. 

Rather than Christ’s appearing in the clouds in power and glory, with all nations of the world witnessing the event, Christ is said to have come invisibly in the Roman destruction of Jerusalem. Consequently, preterists hold mostly to an allegorical interpretation of the Scriptures. Not only prophecy, but even historical narratives in some cases.
{Italics in original. Boldface and underlining mine.}

Warner was talking about full preterism in the context, but Pulliam’s handling of Revelation shows that this statement is accurate for partial preterists, too! Indeed, Lesson 24 in Pulliam’s book, especially his treatment of Revelation 20:4-6, is sickeningly allegorical–sickening because it can sound so believable to readers who don’t know any better.

Revelation 1:3 — A “Slam Dunk” For Preterists?

But while Pulliam brought up the phrases “some standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom” and “this generation” ad nauseum, preterists also seem to be particularly fond of the argument Pulliam made regarding Revelation 1:3 (back at the start of this post). For instance, check out these comments on a blog post from a partial preterist (who I’ve found to be very Biblically-solid on several other topics) where the author is responding to some attempted rebuttals to his view:

The same is true of Rev 1:1’s “must soon take place”, 1:3’s “the time is near”, and 1:7’s “every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him”. I have never heard those verses explained in a satisfactory way from the Futurist view. (And the view that they mean it will happen quickly when they do happen might work in 1:1 – though very poorly – but it certainly doesn’t fit 1:3 or 1:7.)

If you can offer a literal explanation (as you prefer) for how those verses fit with the Futurist view, I would be open to changing my mind.

{Comment posted by Berean Patriot on May 18, 2023. Italics in original.}

To Rev 1:7, that’s a reasonable alternate explanation. I don’t see it as stronger than my understanding, but neither is it weaker. Your understanding is less literal, but equally valid.

To Rev 1:1, My copy of BDAG (arguably the most respected Greek Lexicon) has “soon, in a short time” as the intended meaning in Rev 1:1, and adds “at once, without delay” as well. Given the context of Rev 1:3, that makes the most sense and is supported by BDAG. In fact, the sense of “without delay”/soon {sic} fits in every place the word is used in the NT, while the sense of “It will happen whenever, but it’ll happen speedily whenever it does happen” doesn’t occur.

To Rev 1:3, did you forget to mention this one?

{Comment posted by Berean Patriot on May 20, 2023. Italics in original.}

His remark on Revelation 1:7 in the second comment referred to the view that the phrase “those who pierced Him” referred to Jews in general. (See also Zechariah 12, especially verses 9-11, which mentions that “they will look on Me whom they have pierced” (1995 NASB) as something that will happen on the same day as the Battle of Armageddon and the Day of the Lord. Since my view places the resurrection of all the deceased faithful throughout history on the Day of the Lord, this would include, among others, Jews who were baptized and remained steadfast after Peter mentioned that they had crucified Jesus in Acts 2:36-41. So those particular believers, once resurrected, will indeed “look on [Him] whom they have pierced”!)

As for his remark that there’s no instance in the NT where the word τάχος has “the sense of ‘it will happen whenever, but it’ll happen speedily whenever it does happen’”, I partially agree with this. I agree that baking “it will happen whenever” into the definition is a stretch (note that unlike Traditional Dispensationalists, I don’t believe the events in Revelation could happen “whenever”; I make this perfectly clear in Appendix D of my upcoming book). As for the idea that the sense of “it’ll happen speedily whenever it does happen” doesn’t occur anywhere in the NT, that’s just assuming what you’re trying to prove, as can be demonstrated from looking at the other 7 occasions (yep, there’s that few of them!) where this word is used in the NT. The sense of “happening speedily when it does happen” works just fine in Luke 18:8, Romans 16:20, & Revelation 2:5; Acts 12:7, 22:18, & 25:4 could have either or even both senses intended; and the sense in Revelation 22:6 must obviously be the same sense as in 1:1. Again, the word literally means “a brief space of time”; so, between “without delay”, “soon”, or “it’ll happen speedily when it does happen”, any of these interpretations (or in some cases, more than one!) could’ve been intended in every place this word occurs in the NT! The context in each case may certainly emphasize some sense over (or even to the exclusion of) others upon closer inspection, but to exclude one of these senses from consideration at the outset when the Greek word’s definition otherwise allows for it is fallacious.

Now, I also have to give props to the Berean Patriot for calling out someone else who cited an argument made by John Walvoord (someone who Pulliam and I already disagree with on numerous points!) that the Greek word for “the time” in Revelation 1:3, καιρός (G2540), means “season”, “epoch”, or “era”. {Comment posted by G Winston Hammerud on May 20, 2023} When you look up the Strong’s Definition for this word, it means “an occasion, i.e. set or proper time”. So if nothing else, this word connotes a particularly special time (consider the circumstances under which we English-speakers normally use the phrase “dressed for the occasion”). Indeed, in all of the passages the Berean Patriot cited as counterexamples to Walvoord’s erroneous definition {Comment posted by Berean Patriot on May 23, 2023}, “occasion(s)” or “appointed time(s)” would make sense in the context (e.g., it was often used with reference to harvests, which come at set times during the year). Warner renders this word as “the appointed time” in Revelation 1:3 LGV, and I’ve rendered it “occasion” in the title of this post.

But what about the Berean Patriot’s and Pulliam’s claim that “the time is near” rules out any interpretation other than “just around the corner” or “within your lifetimes”? Preterists seem to think this argument from Revelation 1:3 is unassailable. And to a degree, I can’t blame them: as you may have gathered from clicking through to read the comments Berean Patriot was responding to with the snippets quoted above, the average Christian has no good rebuttal to this argument! However, I think I know why the average Christian has no idea how to refute this argument–and by extension, why those who claim that most (or even all) of the prophecies in Revelation were fulfilled in the Jewish-Roman Wars have gotten so much mileage out of it.

The average Christian doesn’t recognize the fact that Revelation draws heavily on the rest of the Bible, especially the Old Testament prophetic books. And if there’s one section of Scripture that Christians in general are the least familiar with, it’s the Old Testament prophetic books! Indeed, the notion of Biblical Precedent is more important in Revelation than in any other book of the Bible–because, being written last, it had all 65 of the other books of the Bible to take precedent from! Thus, one can’t properly interpret Revelation without being well-versed in Old Testament prophecies.

In fact, most Christians can’t even get past the first verse of Revelation without overlooking a phrase that invokes OT passages: “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John” (ASV, boldface added). The emphasized phrase wasn’t referring to a mere angel (literally, “Messenger”). This was referring to Jesus himself, using one of the titles the OT had for the pre-incarnate Son of God: the “Angel/Messenger of God/YHWH” (e.g., Genesis 21:17, 22:11,15; Exodus 3:2, 23:20-23; Judges 2:1-4, 13:20-22); the OT also calls the Son “the Messenger of great counsel” (Isaiah 9:6 BLXX) and “the messenger of the covenant” (Malachi 3:1 KJV). Paul confirms this when telling the Galatians that “you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.” (4:14c NIV) The Greek phrase is ὡς ἄγγελον θεοῦ ἐδέξασθέ με ὡς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν – “as / a messenger / of God / you received to yourselves / me / as / Christ / Jesus”; “Christ Jesus” is being equated with “a messenger of God” here, undoubtedly based on the same OT passages listed above.

In the case of Revelation 1:3, we ought to consider how the word for “is near”, ἐγγύς (G1451), was used in prophecies in the Septuagint. It turns out that this word is used with reference to the Day of the Lord in several passages:

Howl ye, for the day of the Lord is near [KJV “is at hand”], and destruction from God shall arrive. (Isaiah 13:6 BLXX, boldface added)

For the day of the Lord is nigh, a day of cloud; it shall be the end of the nations. (Ezekiel 30:3 BLXX, boldface added)

Alas, Alas, Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is nigh [KJV “is at hand”], and it will come as trouble upon trouble. (Joel 1:15 BLXX, boldface added)

Sound the trumpet in Sion, make a proclamation in my holy mountain, and let all the inhabitants of the land be confounded: for the day of the Lord is near [KJV “LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand”] (Joel 2:1 BLXX, boldface added)

Noises have resounded in the valley of judgment: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of judgment. (Joel 3:14 BLXX, boldface added)

For the day of the Lord is near upon all the Gentiles: as thou have done, so shall it be done to thee: thy recompense shall be returned on thine own head. (Obadiah 15 BLXX, boldface added)

Fear ye before the Lord God; for the day of the Lord is near; for the Lord has prepared his sacrifice, and has sanctified his guests. (Zephaniah 1:7 BLXX, boldface added)

For the great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and very speedy [ταχύς: “prompt”, “ready”, or “swift”, as discussed earlier]; the sound of the day of the Lord is made bitter and harsh. (Zephaniah 1:14 BLXX, boldface added)

This poses a major problem for those who interpret this word as meaning “just around the corner” or “within your lifetimes” in Revelation 1:3 & 22:10. As noted in my upcoming book (HIDMF, p. 772), every single time “the Day of the Lord” is mentioned in the OT (except for Lamentations 2:22), it refers to the day when the Messiah would conquer Israel’s enemies {I’m presently working on a post/booklet that goes into the “Day of the Lord” passages more thoroughly, so I’ll link to that once it’s ready}. Maybe preterists or non-futurist amillennialists could interpret that as happening at Pentecost, or some other time in the Apostolic Age (rather than at the end of the apocalypse, as futurists like myself interpret the phrase); but even if they can overcome all the details in Joel 3 that portray Israel as being in a new golden age after this has happened (a detail that obviously wasn’t fulfilled in the first century A.D.) and explain away the fact that Isaiah 14:1-2 (which the “petuha-cetuma comparison” technique {HIDMF, p. 665} places at the end of the same minor train of thought that begins in 13:1) has God putting Israel back in their land immediately following the Messiah’s conquering of their enemies (something else Pulliam denies will happen, as I already mentioned here), that still won’t fix the problem I’m seeing here.

These prophecies by Isaiah, Ezekiel, Joel, Obadiah, and Zephaniah were originally given centuries before Jesus’ earthly ministry. Obviously, these prophets were not telling their audiences that the Day of the Lord would be “just around the corner” or “within their lifetimes”! If the word ἐγγύς didn’t have this meaning in these prophecies, then why should we interpret it as having this meaning in the prophecy of Revelation 1:3?! This problem is present for both those who’d identify the Day of the Lord as Jerusalem’s second destruction in A.D. 70 (at the same time both the Berean Patriot & Pulliam place “the appointed time”), and those (such as Pulliam, per p. 150 of “In the Days of Those Kings”; the Berean Patriot has yet to clearly explain how he interprets “the Day of the Lord”) who admit that the Day of the Lord will take place at the time of the still-future judgment by fire at Jesus’ second coming, yet insist that the book of Revelation (or at least most of it) has nothing to do with that (which makes the time from the LXX statements about the Day of the Lord being “around the corner” even further removed from the time they’ll be fulfilled, while leaving the presumed time gap between Revelation 1:3 and its presumed “appointed time” in A.D. 70 practically instantaneous by comparison!)

Here’s another way of looking at it. If we are to understand this word as meaning “just around the corner” in all of these contexts, then God essentially started by saying through Obadiah: “The Day of the Lord is just around the corner!” Then through Joel: “The Day of the Lord is just around the corner!” Then through Isaiah: “The Day of the Lord is just around the corner!” Then through Zephaniah: “The Day of the Lord is just around the corner!” Then through Ezekiel: “The Day of the Lord is just around the corner!” Decades and/or centuries passed between these people, by the way! (While the dates I got from this website are only approximate — not to mention built on assumptions I disprove in my book — the general order is legit enough for my purposes here.) But then in Revelation, God supposedly concluded this pattern by saying “the appointed time is just around the corner… I didn’t mean ‘just around the corner’ any of those other times, but this time, I actually do!” What would that say about whether we should trust what God tells us?!

A Better Understanding

The only resolution to these problems is to conclude that in all of these contexts, the word is being used in another sense. Look again at how the KJV rendered the Hebrew word in some of the instances above: “is at hand”. Thayer’s Greek Lexicon supports this rendering by providing the etymology of ἐγγύς: “from ἐν and γυῖον [limb, hand], at {literally, “in”} hand” {Content in brackets by Thayer. Content in curly brackets mine.}. Just like its Greek counterpart, the English phrase “at hand” can have the sense of “near in time” (as we’ve accepted for ἐγγύς up until this point–for the sake of argument, of course), or the sense of “prepared”. Consider when a business executive asks an analyst during a meeting “Do you have the numbers at hand?” He’s not asking “Can I get the numbers from you shortly after this meeting is over?”, but “Are you ready to discuss the numbers?”.

In the case of Revelation 1:3 & 22:10, the sense of “the occasion is prepared” is that when these events would happen had already been decided by God. This interpretation also works in all of the OT prophecies referenced above, in light of something else God said through Isaiah:

remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
(Isaiah 46:9-10 ESV, boldface added)

In summary: Revelation 1:1 & 22:20 should be interpreted as saying the events would occur “suddenly”, and play out over “a brief space of time”. 1:3 and 22:10 should be interpreted as saying the appointed time is “prepared”, so the events are certain to occur according to the timetable God had in mind from the beginning. The alternative view of these verses being promoted by Pulliam, the Berean Patriot, and others who try to say the events of Revelation were fulfilled in the first century A.D. (including downright heretical full preterists) can only be maintained by ignoring the precedent set by the Old Testament prophets.